Order of Battle...

[2 of 10]

In the Dominion war was it ever established just how many Starships the Federation had, and how many of each class were available at the height of the conflict. The same question applies for the Klingons, Romulans, Cardissians, Breen and the Jem-Hadar...

Resistance is Futile

 

[Jono]

Simple answer no.

At the end we have Martok informing the allied commanders that the Klingons could get 1,500 warships ready by the next day to hold the front lines while the Feds and Roms pulled back following the entry of the Breen and their energy dissipater weapon. The Romulan in the meeting said that the Klingons would be outnumbered 20 to 1. So if you take that literally then the combined Jem'Hadar/Cardassian/Breen force was around 30,000 warships in that late stage of the war.

As for the Federation the highest fleet we heard of was the Tenth Fleet (it defended Betazed before it fell). As for the size of a fleet we hear that the Seventh Fleet sent 112 ships to fight at Tyra. Later elements of the Second, Fifth and Ninth fleets would be joined to attack Deep Space 9, just the Second and Fifth actually took part and numbered around 600 ships so that could mean a fleet was 300+ starships. Common numbers through around for Starfleet is 8,000 starships but I've also heard someone mention that that number could be as high as 30,000 based on registry numbers (the different between the lowest and highest registry mentioned in the TNG era shows).

Damar also mentioned that the Cardassians suffered 7 million casualties (which I think means just meant military personnel) up to the Second Battle of Chin'toka, but that would be a mix of starship, starbase personnel and the grunts on the grounds.

 

[Cyke101]

Later elements of the Second, Fifth and Ninth fleets would be joined to attack Deep Space 9, just the Second and Fifth actually took part and numbered around 600 ships so that could mean a fleet was 300+ starships.

It's the other way around: the second and fifth fleets totaled ~600 ships, and the missing fleet presumably would've added 300 for a total of 900 ships. The Dominion/Cardassian forces were said to be about 1200 and twice that of Starfleet. Besides, the poem said 600

 

[jamestyler]

I'd imagine the Federation was pulling every possible resource. Out of the SF ships on screen I'd bet that some of them were put into service early from construction, some could have even been retired ships stuck in a scrapyard with all valuable resources ripped out - only to be clumsily put together at the last minute just to get another ship into battle.

Plus you had the small fighter ships the Maquis used, which counted as we saw plenty of them in battle, and I'd assume (even if not seen on screen) non-SF Federation ships would have been asked into the fight - such as Vulcans or whoever else still had their own fleet as an addition to their Federations resources.

 

[jamestyler]

I'd imagine the Federation was pulling every possible resource. Out of the SF ships on screen I'd bet that some of them were put into service early from construction, some could have even been retired ships stuck in a scrapyard with all valuable resources ripped out - only to be clumsily put together at the last minute just to get another ship into battle.

Plus you had the small fighter ships the Maquis used, which counted as we saw plenty of them in battle, and I'd assume (even if not seen on screen) non-SF Federation ships would have been asked into the fight - such as Vulcans or whoever else still had their own fleet as an addition to their Federations resources.

 

[Jono]

Later elements of the Second, Fifth and Ninth fleets would be joined to attack Deep Space 9, just the Second and Fifth actually took part and numbered around 600 ships so that could mean a fleet was 300+ starships.

It's the other way around: the second and fifth fleets totaled ~600 ships, and the missing fleet presumably would've added 300 for a total of 900 ships. The Dominion/Cardassian forces were said to be about 1200 and twice that of Starfleet. Besides, the poem said 600

Yep, that's what I meant.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

We know that the Cardassian Eleventh Order--which was completely wiped out in the massacre at Septimus--had approximately 500,000 soldiers. The Eleventh may have been a ground unit; I never heard any mention of ships belonging to them. IF the Cardassians had twelve Orders (we never heard any number higher than twelve, anyway), and they were all of the same size--which we don't know, that would put them at full strength at 6,000,000 serving.

That would mean the Cardassians had LOST 1 million more already than their full forces are supposed to have. Now, hopefully for them, the Eleventh Order is the smallest of them all, and their full forces are supposed to be larger than that--but it also wouldn't be out of line with what we know about the Dominion using them for cannon fodder. That war had to have just chewed right through their population.

 

[TheGodBen]

We know that the Cardassian Eleventh Order--which was completely wiped out in the massacre at Septimus--had approximately 500,000 soldiers. The Eleventh may have been a ground unit; I never heard any mention of ships belonging to them. IF the Cardassians had twelve Orders (we never heard any number higher than twelve, anyway), and they were all of the same size--which we don't know, that would put them at full strength at 6,000,000 serving.

That would mean the Cardassians had LOST 1 million more already than their full forces are supposed to have. Now, hopefully for them, the Eleventh Order is the smallest of them all, and their full forces are supposed to be larger than that--but it also wouldn't be out of line with what we know about the Dominion using them for cannon fodder. That war had to have just chewed right through their population.

Not the mention the Dominion trying to exterminate them all in the final episode. I can't remember, was it 500 million that were killed in the initial estimate, or 2 billion?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

800 million died on Cardassia Prime alone. We don't know if the genocide order was enacted elsewhere in the Cardassia system, or in the outworlds. If it was indeed Union-wide, sad to say, but that larger figure could be the case.

 

[Marie1]

I suspect it was union-wide, plus wasn't that 800 million just the first report Garak got? I thought he said that that report was early and that they were still coming in.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I suspect it was union-wide, plus wasn't that 800 million just the first report Garak got? I thought he said that that report was early and that they were still coming in.

Yeah...except for one notable case in the real world that I know of--death tolls almost ALWAYS revise upward...and sharply so.

My personal suspicion is Union-wide as well, but I don't think we ever had any confirmation onscreen.

 

[Marie1]

Perhaps we can figure it out together? and

When the Dominion fell back to Cardassian space (or was it Cardassia prime?)
Did they fall back to the star system, and if so, how many Cardassian worlds would have Dominion ships near them? I'm guessing that the planets with even a single spare Jem'Hadar ship nearby would be affected... I need a map...

Edit, found one... so it looks like at least 3 planets could be affected but (see below the picture)...

The RPG book (non-canon) Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Narrator's Toolkit, published in 1999, already gave the precise data:

• the star is a bright red dwarf (M2 V type)
• the first two planets are class F
• Cardassia Prime is the third planet in the system
• Cardassia VI and VII are class J gas giants
• Cardassia VIII is class G

^ http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Cardassian_system

Now, VI and VII are uninhabitable, F & G class, according to Wiki means "Proto-Earth-sized planets whose class depends on their age and solidity of their cores." so I'm guessing they could be habitable... I'd say since the inner 3 planets at least appear affected, that it affected the Union...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

One thing I don't know that we can be sure of: do we know that EVERY SINGLE SHIP pulled out of the Union's outworlds? The Dominion would've been utterly stupid to do that--they already know the Cardassians have a rebellious streak and they would have to know that any world they withdrew from entirely would go right back under Cardassian control and could become the launching pad for who knew what against them. Even in the Dominion's "best case" scenario, if they beat back the Allies at Cardassia Prime, there would definitely be time for the temporarily liberated worlds to cook up future "surprises" for the Dominion. Covert forces from the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons could definitely help with said surprises.

I suspect that instead, a skeleton force was left in the outworlds, but with orders not to engage the Federation, but instead to keep order on those worlds.

 

[Marie1]

Were there 2 withdrawls, now that I think of it? I think at first they collected the fleet, which had stretched from Cardassia to DS9 to where ever, to Cardassian space. Then, when the Dominion forces were hit by the Federation, they regrouped at C. Prime for that very final assault. And CP is the 3rd planet, a couple outer ones aren't inhabitied... So maybe middle-ish? Tho that's still be C. Prime...

Any idea what this means? To the left would be the F,K &R fleets.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

But however many stages the withdrawal came in...I still question whether the Dominion would've withdrawn every single ship in their fleet, especially with the knowledge that the Cardassians had become so untrustworthy.

 

[Marie1]

True... especially since they obviously diverted ships from their forces to take out Cardassia- couldn't that have waited til after they won for crying out loud? Stupid Founder. It may depend on the population of the planets- do they all have outposts at least? Or things that could be used against the Dominion? Up to the end-ish, Cardassian ships were fighting with the Dominion, so withdrawing ships may not have been a big deal, anything could be handled later?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

True... especially since they obviously diverted ships from their forces to take out Cardassia- couldn't that have waited til after they won for crying out loud? Stupid Founder. It may depend on the population of the planets- do they all have outposts at least? Or things that could be used against the Dominion? Up to the end-ish, Cardassian ships were fighting with the Dominion, so withdrawing ships may not have been a big deal, anything could be handled later?

Yeah, but remember the prohibitions that were already there against Cardassians: no armed Cardassians on Dominion vessels, etc. I would THINK there'd also be similar restrictions on their ships after Rondac, or an attempt at it...something like "no unaccompanied Cardassian ships in Dominion space."

But even if the planets don't have huge populations or major armaments, all it takes is for the Federation or Romulans to sneak in on one of them and provide the rebels-to-be a nice little present to be unwrapped when necessary later...not to mention the 24th century equivalent of IEDs. All it would take is somebody enterprising enough to get whatever's used in the colony's reactor, and make something very nasty out of it...

 

[Marie1]

Hmmm... this is true... think think think...

 

[Cyke101]

Later elements of the Second, Fifth and Ninth fleets would be joined to attack Deep Space 9, just the Second and Fifth actually took part and numbered around 600 ships so that could mean a fleet was 300+ starships.

It's the other way around: the second and fifth fleets totaled ~600 ships, and the missing fleet presumably would've added 300 for a total of 900 ships. The Dominion/Cardassian forces were said to be about 1200 and twice that of Starfleet. Besides, the poem said 600

Yep, that's what I meant.

Whoops, my fault then.

But while replying to your post, the thought had occurred to me: what if Lord Alfred Tennyson wrote the poem because he had predicted the Dominion War? I'd like to think that he was a Trekkie very ahead of his time.

 

[Enterprise1981]

Admiral Ross said that the Dominion had completely withdrawn from Federation, Klingon, and Romulan territories, so all or their forces were likely diverted to protect their holdings within Cardassian space. According to Ross, breaking through that line would be "a very messy, very bloody job." The battle that forced the Dominion fleet minus the defecting Cardassian ships to withdraw all the way back to Cardassia Prime cost a third of the Federation-Klingon-Romulan fleet. Battling what was left of the Dominion fleet probably would have inflicted even heavier losses, win or lose. So even with the losses on the Dominion's side, an Allied victory still would be a costly one had the Founder surrendered.