one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older films..

[srombomb]

Remember Star Trek III... remember how NO ONE was to go to Genesis but the science team?

So explain to me why starfleet's lone attempt to stop Kirk from stealing the Enterprise was the Excelsiors failed opportunity?

Unless Scotty managed to sabotage the entire fleet, there is no excuse for there to not have been at least a few more starships waiting for Kirk in the genesis sector. Let alone the fact the Klingons should have been intercepted as soon as they destroyed Grissom. Plot holes GALORE people. Star Trek has been littered with them since it's inception, but we get over it because our imagination was tantalized over the years because we fell in love with the characters.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Re: one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older fil

Hear hear!

 

[cultcross]

Re: one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older fil

In Generations, why did they only go back in time 10 minutes or so? The writers just weren't thinking! They ruined Trek! They destroyed the Enterprise for God's sake! What real fan could get on board with that???

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Re: one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older fil

GEN had the biggest plothole of them all. Way to go Picard and Kirk, you ninnies.

 

[srombomb]

Re: one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older fil

Because the writers wanted there to be a new Enterprise in the next movie.

Why did the borg choose to go back in time right near Earth in first contact? Why not avoid a battle with Starfleet and create your temporal vortex hidden behind some moon?

The drawbacks of science fiction movies. It's easy to nitpick.

 

[flemm]

Re: one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older fil

We'll I don't think anyone can legitimately argue that this movie is bad Star Trek or not Star Trek or whatever because it has some plot holes. That said, there are degrees.

I enjoyed this movie (even more the second time ), but I have no qualms with recognizing that it has a weak plot. It is weak, both taken on its own and when it is compared to previous Star Trek movies, at least the good ones. Naturally there is plenty of room for debate for where this plot would rank when compared to that of the other Star Trek movies, but consider the following:

TWOK: a very tight plot, almost undoubtedly the best Trek movie as far as plotting is concerned. Not entirely devoid of contrived elements (few plots are), but they are few and they happen early. For example, Chekhov and company stumbling on Khan.

First Contact: this is probably the best comparison with the current film. The plot is relatively contrived, when compared to TWOK. Picard has a conveniently easy time destroying the Borg cube, who then suddenly develop the ability to time travel. We just have to accept that these things happen. However from there the plot unflods without the audience having to accept further glaring coincidences or complicated plot devices.

Basically, a good plot will use plot devices that are as simple as possible, while at the same time being fun and interesting. To the extent that convenient or implausible coincidences are required, they will happen early, so that the audience does not have to go to great lengths to suspend disbelief at the pivotal moments of the film later on.

The current Star Trek movie has a weak plot principally because:
1) Red matter is an implausible, inconsistent and boring plot device.
2) The pivotal sequence of the plot, involving Kirk's meeting with Spock Prime, requires the audience to accept a series of glaring and implausible coincidences at a late stage of the film.

I don't see any reason for there to be a war between "haters" and "kool-aid drinkers" or whatever. The film has a weak plot. Happily, it is very strong in other areas.

 

[flemm]

Re: one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older fil

double post

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older fil

It isn't so much the plot problems. It is the fundamentals that are my issue. For instance, I would mention the poor way they handled the exposition of what was going on in the 24th century and supplying Nero with plausible motivation.

I could care less about if it is realistic for a blackhole to swallow a nova or if the Enterprise can escape from the event horizon of a black hole. I don't mind the red matter as a story device. It didn't bother me in the least. Didn't give a sh*t about Delta Vega's proximity to Vulcan. I didn't even remember it was from TOS until I read about it here. My childhood wasn't raped by a reboot. Didn't care about stardates being Gregorian. Didn't care that the Enterprise was updated. I didn't care about it not being deep or socially relevant. I didn't even notice the lenses flares people are griping about. The list goes on and on.

Everyone is going to have a different threshold for what they are willing to accept even in a straightforward action film but my issues with the film had more to do with it doing too many things, lacking heart, poorly handling Nimoy's inclusion, treating Nero as nothing more than a weak plot device, mishandling Amanda's death, treating Vulcan's destruction with all the attention and care as that of a planet in a video game going boom!and finally poor editing.

And I would point out saying that it isn't any more flawed than most Trek films just proves how weak and unsatisfying most of them were. That's why I always felt that Trek works better on the smallscreen as a weekly series.

 

[Jax]

Re: one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older fil

ST 1 - Enterprise nearest ship, what at Earth

ST 2 - Something as powerful as Genesis device should have a entire fleet protecting it

ST 3 - One ship at Genesis, Lack of ships chasing ENT, Bird of Prey got a dam small crew ey and lets beam them virtually all onto the ENT, why did Spock stop growing at adult hood and not carry on like Genesis to a short life.

ST 4 - Time Travel around the sun, a probe wanting to talk to whales,

ST 5 - Centre of Galaxy in a few hours, GOD, Spock got a Bro, How Many decks does the ENT have dam that scene

ST 6 - Klingons has a sensor system guarding there space that I.D's ships by how they talk not what they look like

ST 7 - Riker change the shield frequencies & now the Nexus does time travel how handy but only 10 minute time travel wow

ST 8 - The Borg don't want to time travel where there ain't fed ships and then drive to Earth and take over the Earth?...The Borg want to take Earth but na we will leave our most powerful ship out of the battle because Picard might want to kill them a little too much for our tastes

ST 9 - The Feds can't use other parts of the planet to put colonies on ? Captains got a boat ship ey

ST 10 - Picard was cloned back when he wasn't that important why not someone else, That big ship just lets Picard drive into him, wow Remans out of nowhere how handy for the plot and wow this guy has a huge ship who let him built this and wow built it quick. Shields down but don't worry the enemy aren't beaming to you know important parts of the ship and wow Riker thats a big hole in the middle of the ship................B FUCKING 4

They all have plot holes and yet I still love 8 out of 10 of them Well 9 out of 11 now

 

[gastrof]

Re: one reason I don't let plot holes bug me compared to the older fil

In Generations, why did they only go back in time 10 minutes or so? The writers just weren't thinking! They ruined Trek! They destroyed the Enterprise for God's sake! What real fan could get on board with that???

I don't think Picard was even aware of the destruction of the Enterprise when he was in the Nexus. Likely found out after he and Kirk had stopped Soran.

I mean, if we're going to play this game, at least let's play it right.