Once Again, Old Famous Person Yells At Clouds About Current Music

[Shaka Zulu]

First, it was Grace Jones (who I mentioned in a previous thread a while back.)

This time, it's Quincy Jones (no relation, obviously), because he can.

Seriously, what was said by one board member in the Grace Jones thread applies here too (even though he has a right to not like the Beatles); these older people expect everything to sound like it used to when it can't do so and the younger generation isn't trying to appeal to them when they make music. Why not try to work and inspire the younger generation that they feel is lacking in whatever musical talents, or just work with younger artists to come up with what they (G. Jones and Q. Jones) think is 'better' music?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Everyone has opinions. Some people hate the new music, others hate the old. And never the twain shall meet.

Sure, it might seem that Quincy Jones is just another old guy who's tilting at windmills, but isn't it just as annoying to hear some young punk going on about "Don't trust anyone over 30" and all that crap? The point is that neither of these extremes is correct.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Public criticisms benefit both the old and young acts, which I've always believed is why they do it. It's just a grab for a brief headline, to remind people they're still alive. Musicians tend to have Ferrengi-like ears, when it comes to a wide variety of music and appreciate more of it than they let on. I wouldn't take any of these comments to heart ... I'm sure they don't.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

To be fair, he wasn't bashing *new* music, he was bashing *pop* music.

There's plenty of good and innovative music coming out today, just it isn't coming through the major record labels for the most part. Current pop music is mostly about just putting a sexy face on generic dance pop melodies, then run it through machines to smooth over all the personality.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

To be fair, he wasn't bashing *new* music, he was bashing *pop* music.

There's plenty of good and innovative music coming out today, just it isn't coming through the major record labels for the most part. Current pop music is mostly about just putting a sexy face on generic dance pop melodies, then run it through machines to smooth over all the personality.

Sorry, but to me it looks as if he's bashing everybody in music without regard for who's out there besides the few new people he mentioned he likes.

And no, pop music isn't run though a machine or whatever bullshit he and other detractors love to say, plus not everything is Auto-Tune either. Again, as Locutus of Bored said, this is just an older person yelling at clouds.

There's plenty of good and innovative music coming out today, just it isn't coming through the major record labels for the most part.

Really? 'Cause I spy with my little eye a lot of good and innovative music coming through the major labels, and I can even list them for you:


Bat For Lashes, aka Natasha Khan: http://www.batforlashes.com/ (also a video for her song What's A Girl To Do-

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Santigold, aka Santi White: http://www.santigold.com/ (also a video for her song L.E.S Artistes-

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Janelle Monáe: http://www.jmonae.com/ (also a video for her song Tightrope, which was a brief big hit-

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Feist, real name Leslie Feist: http://www.listentofeist.com/ (also a video for her 'hit' [more like the song she's known for] Mushaboom-

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Cold War Kids: http://www.coldwarkids.com/ (also a 'video' for their song Something Is Not Right With Me [live performance]-

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[gblews]

Yes, he was bashing all popular music. But if this were just about anyone other than Quincy Jones, I might very well agree with Shaka Zulu, and I am old. But Quincy is not just any old person making these comments, nor is he just any older musician making these comments.

He was in his 50's when he produced one of the greatest and most popular albums of the rock era back in the '80's, with Thriller. His albums since back in the '60's have not only been groundbreaking musically, but also commercial successes as well. He produced the revolutionary, for that time, Leslie Gore, which was pure pop in the early 60's. His albums have included jazz, rock, pop, soul/r&b, pop, dance music and have yielded multiple hit singles. Quincy cut his teeth working with some of the greatest virtuosos of their times back in the 40's and '50's. He is eminently qualified to speak on the subject of music in general.

What it seems he is saying is that today's popular musicians aren't well trained in music theory, don't play or compose very well (by his exacting standards), and are making music that lacks emotional punch (this part is more subjective). This leads to one dimensional musical ideas and pedestrian melodies. I daresay he is right about the playing and composing. I've read other older musicians lamenting the lack of imagination and expertise in today's compositions. So many songs today, hit songs, lack complexity and musical depth. So many hit songs today hit on one melodic idea and ride that idea throughout the entire song.

The thing is though, that doesn't stop anyone, including me, from liking, (hell, loving), songs that are elementary in the way they're composed, arranged, and played. But I have no illusions that I'm listening to some all time great compositions when I hear a song I like by Beyonce or Kendrick Lamar, or Lady Gaga, or just about anyone.

Guess what I'm saying is, I think Quincy's right, but it really doesn't matter.

 

[tharpdevenport]

It's times like this a dislike button would come in handy.

 

[gblews]

It's times like this a dislike button would come in handy.

There's always the mute button.

 

[plynch]

Nadia Boulanger who trained Gershwin, Copland, and many others in Paris said, IIRC, Q was the second most brilliant student she had had. Second only to Igor Stravinsky.

He found MIchael Jackson as a quasi-has-been on the set of the Wiz and they created, well, MJ music as we knew it.

So he knows whereof he speaks.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Sorry, but to me it looks as if he's bashing everybody in music without regard for who's out there besides the few new people he mentioned he likes.

And no, pop music isn't run though a machine or whatever bullshit he and other detractors love to say, plus not everything is Auto-Tune either. Again, as Locutus of Bored said, this is just an older person yelling at clouds.



Really? 'Cause I spy with my little eye a lot of good and innovative music coming through the major labels, and I can even list them for you:

Yes, those are good examples, I forget that there's things besides top 40 on the major labels now. I was thinking mostly of top 40 that's been stripped of emotion. And just because it isn't auto-tuned doesn't mean it hasn't been run through a machine to remove all the little off-tone moments and small imperfections that actually connect you emotionally with the music. Or that the singer wasn't matched up with a song written by some struggling Berklee graduate rather than (God forbid) writing their own song that is personally meaningful to them in pursuit of their own creative vision.

There's tons of great indie pop, indie rock, electronic music, hip-hop, etc out there. Just not on Clear Channel approved playlists.

And I'd submit the reason that a lot of major labels have started picking up bands like that is because it thrived first on smaller labels.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Yes, those are good examples, I forget that there's things besides top 40 on the major labels now. I was thinking mostly of top 40 that's been stripped of emotion. And just because it isn't auto-tuned doesn't mean it hasn't been run through a machine to remove all the little off-tone moments and small imperfections that actually connect you emotionally with the music. Or that the singer wasn't matched up with a song written by some struggling Berklee graduate rather than (God forbid) writing their own song that is personally meaningful to them in pursuit of their own creative vision.

There's tons of great indie pop, indie rock, electronic music, hip-hop, etc out there. Just not on Clear Channel approved playlists.

And I'd submit the reason that a lot of major labels have started picking up bands like that is because it thrived first on smaller labels.

Too bad that they can't promote many of said non-top 40 artists to major prominence like they used to instead of the pretty things they promote to fuck and back now.

But what I said still stands; Q's old enough (and smart enough) and has a shitload of time to find new bands/artists that are great (hell, anybody can find them if they're willing to put in the [free] time to find them, listen to them, buy their music, and go to see them live [if people in North America would do what I hear the Brits do-go out and listen to new bands in clubs ]they wouldn't be saying this shit.) But they and Q (Jones) don't and so, they say this shit, all of the time, ad infinitum (more like ad nauseum now), thinking they're smart when they really aren't, and all they're doing is being full of shit, yelling at clouds like Abe Simpson.

This article lays it out on the line what they are, and it's right, and I agree with it. And what Locutus of Bored said (which I quoted above) also still applies.

 

[urbandefault]

I was gonna say Paul McCartney could buy and sell Quincy Jones, but I'm pretty sure that's not legal.

 

[plynch]

Well, you can yell at the clouds that people should put in work to find more complex, interesting music. BUT People are sheeple and the VAST majority aren't going to actually WORK to find/hear new music. Terrestrial radio and what Apple/Spotify put at the top of their pages: that's what the masses are gonna hear. And most of it, both pop and "country" is, in fact, VERY limited both harmonically and melodically. A lot of it is pretty cool sonically IMHO, though I don't listen to it, except to hear what people are now listening to.

But the underlying "songs" themselves are "songs" just barely. I come out of standards, jazz and singer/songwriter areas and tried to write contemporary country for a time. You need about a three-note melody, max, repeated over and over with harmony changing once per measure at the most. It was really hard. I'm used to y'know, melodies, like the Beatles, Billy Joel, even Michael Jackson wrote, and I never quite got to being simple enough. Professional vetters kept telling me the songs were good, but too classic country (90s-ish at the latest). And that was with me doin' my dangdest to write uber-simply. So I went back to what comes natural.

It's pretty hard to argue that the mass of music that is actually listened-to now isn't really limited, compositionally, But whether simplistic music makes it "bad" music? "As for taste there can be no disputing."

 

[Owain Taggart]

So many songs today, hit songs, lack complexity and musical depth. So many hit songs today hit on one melodic idea and ride that idea throughout the entire song.

I agree. Although I think it also depends on where you look. It's why I tend to gravitate towards folk music. The majority tend to be singer-songwriters who know how to play their own instruments, by growing up with them or by having it in their culture.

 

[think]

I drifted as a cloud from season to season
I am now going on to my next appointment
What I do for I am to get this stuff done
Nonetheless nonsense is rhetorical rhetoric...

Go