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Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoilers)

Samuel T. Cogley

Vice Admiral
Admiral
So this is a little less profound than it might have been if I had actually written it a few weeks ago when I wanted to, instead of waiting until after Orci's statements on quantum theory, etc.

But what the hell, here goes...

What is the point of having Old Spock in Star Trek XI, really?

The simplest answer is, "Why not?"

Sure, Nimoy's still alive. It's a nice continuity nod, etc.

But I think it will be much more than that. Team Abrams has said that Nimoy's role is 'essential' to Star Trek XI. And no mere cameo is essential.

Here are my thoughts on the issue. And I invite your (hopefully vitriolic) responses.

My guess is that Nimoy will serve several purposes.

First off, it's a nice touch to include one of the old actors. That's a fairly standard effort made by most creative teams on remakes.

But Nimoy's role goes far deeper.

He will also likely serve as the film's default narrator. We will follow him back through time from the "original timeline" (OT) to the "new timeline" (NT). He will be the one who explains to the audience why he has travelled back in time. He will alert us to what has changed and why that is important. He will also let us know that all has been put right at the end of the film, while simultaneously sending off the NT Star Trek into the future, with his blessing.

This will no doubt be done as unintrusively as possible, as too much Old Spock and too much exposition will frighten and bore the newbies.

Secondarily, Old Spock will represent the Skeptical/Concerned Trekkie. It goes without saying that Nimoy's presence should make Star Trek XI more palatable to the old-school fans (even going so far as to dragging them to see a movie that they otherwise might not). If the marketing for the film is any indication, Old Spock has little value except to the hardcore fans, evidenced by the intentional effort to leave Nimoy out of the theatrical-release trailer, while including him shortly thereafter in the internet-only trailer.

But deeper than that, Nimoy has our trust. (I will assume the role of a 'skeptical Trekkie' for the rest of this post, to further illustrate my point.) Fans all over teh Internets have decided that this movie must be good solely because Nimoy has agreed to be in it, so clearly Nimoy's goodwill aura has extended over the production even before the movie has been released.

I trust the Spock. I love the Spock. So both Old Spock and I are going to be watching this movie from the shadows, with our discerning eyes, judging very carefully whether this new cast and crew is worthy. As the new cast does their thing in Plot A, Spock and I will watch from the relative safety of Plot B. Spock will protect me from the scary new people until he has observed them for long enough to make his judgment call as to whether they are worthy to carry the torch for the next generation. After observing for roughly two hours, Spock will no doubt proclaim this new cast worthy, and I will be expected to do the same. In other words, Spock will validate our skepticism for long enough to lull us into a false sense of security, and then will pronounce the new crew viable. At that point, we will either have been convinced along with Spock that the new kids are worthy, or we will be too ashamed/frightened to disagree with wise Old Spock, and we will bite our tongues and agree with him. To do otherwise would make us no longer true Trek fans, no?

(This does not apply to the existing Trek fans who are so giddy/wet with excitement about this new movie that they would cheerlead for it even if we found out that it was all about Tuvix and the Space Hippies.)

((And yes, that would make a great name for a rock band.))

Lastly, Old Spock makes the perfect Paramount pitchman. In a sense, his message will be this:

OLD SPOCK: "The original timeline is safe. Keep buying the old DVDs. The new timeline is worthy. Buy all the new DVDs and merchandise. My presence in this film connects this new timeline to the old, and makes all of it canon. So if you were in for a penny, you are in for a lot more pounds. You aren't off the hook yet. Keep spending."

And the brilliance of portraying Old Spock as much older than we have ever seen him before will telegraph this message to the old-schoolers: "All of the old canon is safe. This Spock is coming back long after 'Deep Space Nine,' 'Voyager,' (and a couple of other original timeline series/books/comics/etc. which have yet to be written) occurred, so breathe easy. All the old stuff is still canon."

In short, the inclusion of Nimoy/Spock is genius. He's part storyteller, part hardcore-Trekkie-ruffled-feather-soother, and part snake-oil salesman.

How all of this will play out on screen is just a matter of detail.

My guess is that the movie will end something like this...

[MAJOR PLOT CRISIS HAS JUST BEEN RESOLVED AND KIRK, YOUNG SPOCK, AND OLD SPOCK MEET IN THE SHUTTLEBAY, NEAR OLD SPOCK'S TIMESHIP]

OLD SPOCK: "I thank you for your hospitality. But now it is time for me to return to my timeline."

KIRK: "But how can you be sure that your timeline has been restored?"

OLD SPOCK looks into a viewer on his timeship, similar to the viewer at his post on the original Enterprise. (In other words, only he can see the images that the viewer has to offer.)

On the viewer he sees, in whatever romanticized, Doris Day lens technique that modern-day Hollywood has to offer, a few brief seconds of a scene from the original Star Trek series. A musical cue will make this irrelevant-to-the-masses scene even more emotional for the old-timers. (Absent a glossed-up scene from the original series, we should see a few seconds of a scene from the original series, but acted word-for-word and shot-for-shot by the new actors from the film.) Some of you out there will recoil at this suggestion, but you are all dumbshits who should just relax and trust me on this. It will only take up three seconds of the film. I promise you will tear up and have to pretend to your geek friends sitting all around you that something got in your eye. You will all be kissing my ass and telling me how right I was after the movie comes out.

After Old Spock (and only Old Spock) sees the old-school Trek on his viewer, he returns his attention to young Kirk and Spock.

OLD SPOCK: "All is as it was. All has been restored."

KIRK: "So what happens now?"

OLD SPOCK: "If my calculations are correct, I will be returned to my timeline, to live out the rest of my life there."

KIRK: "And what about us? What about our future?"

OLD SPOCK: "There is the very real possibility that your timeline will continue forward on its own."

YOUNG SPOCK: "And what of our ultimate fate? What becomes of us?"

KIRK: "Stop. I don't want to know. We'll make our own future."

OLD SPOCK: "The Captain is correct. There is no way to tell if you will share the same experiences and fates that we did. Only time will tell, as you go boldly into your own future."

OLD SPOCK: "And now I must return." [to YOUNG SPOCK, with Vulcan salute] "Live long and prosper."

YOUNG SPOCK [meeting the Vulcan salute with one of his own]: "Live long and prosper."

OLD SPOCK gets into his timeship and vanishes in a blinding burst of colored light.

YOUNG SPOCK [with eyebrow raised]: "Fascinating."

KIRK [looking at his hands, and then at YOUNG SPOCK]: "Well, we're still here. That's a good sign."

Cut to the ENTERPRISE BRIDGE. KIRK and SPOCK enter from the TURBOLIFT and take their familiar places among the now timeless crew.

CHEKOV: "Orders, Captain?"

KIRK: "Let's see what's out there. Let's boldy go where no man has gone before." [beat] "Warp six, Mister Sulu."

SULU [smiling and pressing the proper buttons on his console]: "Aye, Captain. Warp six."

EXTERIOR of ENTERPRISE. ENTERPRISE launches into warp and disappears from view.

Roll credits.

---------

"But what about the Sam Cogley Boston Legal-style ending?" :eek:

No worries. There's still plenty of time for that after all of the credits have rolled. Wait for the bonus scene. :techman:
 
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Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

Nothing that I can tell, other than they needed a TOS regular to get old fans out and Nimoy was their favorite.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

Nothing that I can tell, other than they needed a TOS regular to get old fans out and Nimoy was their favorite.

Well, if nothing else, your post certainly has the value of being much shorter than mine. :techman:
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

You think a lot, Cogley. In the era of my childhood, you'd have been burned as a witch.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

Spock will validate our skepticism for long enough to lull us into a false sense of security, and then will pronounce the new crew viable.
Why must it be a false sense of security?

---------------
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

You think a lot, Cogley.

Only about things which are ultimately of no importance.

In the era of my childhood, you'd have been burned as a witch.

And rightly so. :techman:

Spock will validate our skepticism for long enough to lull us into a false sense of security, and then will pronounce the new crew viable.
Why must it be a false sense of security?

Well, aside from the fact that we were never in any real danger, it will ultimately depend on whether each individual fan's concerns about the new film were justified.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

Fuck, Cogley. Must you always write such long-ass essays when you start a thread?

Though I suppose, knowing you, you'll have links to five threads you started that aren't long-ass essays just to contradict me.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

Since every old school trekker I know including my father thinks it looks downright cool,
that factor doesn't seem to have much credibility beyond internet message boards.

He's a tool of the plot. Simple as that, the writers wrote a time travel plot and because
Abrams wanted to put young Spocks story of struggling between choosing Starfleet over
Vulcan at the forefront, Nimoy seems the obvious choice, especialy because I think most
people are a little more fond of Nimoy than Shatner outside Priceline commercials.

No need for narration, pitching or pleasing skeptical trekkies.
They are a small minority that inhabits the interwebz and has little affect on the success of the film.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

There's little reason to tie a reboot back to the original timeline other than: (a) because they can, and (b) to appease the existing fanbase.

(a) Because they can.

This is Star Trek and science-fiction, so they can do pretty much whatever they want and get away with it. That said, the value of "because they can" starts to diminish pretty quickly as we keep in mind that this is an attempt to streamline, reinvent, and get back-to-basics with Star Trek for a younger and more modern audience. Why convolute a straightforward action movie with a confusing tether back to an outdated, already bloated timeline?

(b) To appease the existing fanbase.

To the extent that there is any mention of connecting the new timeline back to the original timeline in the film, there is absolutely no reason to do that other than to appease the fans. What value does that non sequitur have to the general public?

Having Nimoy play an Old Spock who travels back in time is one thing. Using him as a device to explain to the audience that the original Shatner/Nimoy/Kelley timeline is still intact is quite another. The former is a fairly generic storytelling device. The latter is marketing.

Now, as of yet, we have no idea how much effort will be made in the film to express this concept, if any. My guess is that it will be minimal. But if the amount of time Orci has spent explaining it in interviews is any indication, and the amount of time spent explaining that this movie does not alter canon, it's a fair guess that not altering what has come before was a direct and conscious choice. And the fact that, despite that direct and conscious choice to not alter canon, they seem to be rewriting the original series concept to keep what they like best and ditch the rest, the hypocrisy of this attempt can be explained by little other than a marketing decision -- possibly at the studio level -- to have their cake and eat it, too.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

There's little reason to tie a reboot back to the original timeline other than: (a) because they can, and (b) to appease the existing fanbase.

Because they can, because they wanted to re-boot it while still being a sequel.
It just... seems like something that would happen in the Trek Universe.

It does appease most the existing fanbase because it means all of the "original"
timeline still had to happen to lead up to this one, thus all DVD remain intact.

But overall I seriously doubt it had to do with marketing, they could do without
most of the so called "hardcore" fans.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

Nimoy seems the obvious choice, especialy because I think most
people are a little more fond of Nimoy than Shatner outside Priceline commercials.
Years ago, my high school librarian, an avid theater-goer, told us about how she and her husband almost walked out of "Fiddler on the Roof," with Nimoy as Tevye. Bad beyond comprehension was her assessment of his performance, and she was still steamed about how he ruined what was otherwise an enjoyable play. I don't think the average person even thinks about Nimoy as anything but the stiff guy with the pointed ears, something ably lampooned on "The Spitting Image" years ago; Shatner has broader appeal, and truth be told, the only people I ever hear readily complain about him are Trekkies.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

Nimoy is primarily there to get as many skeptical and worried "classic(1966-2005)" fans to the theaters as possible. Everything else is secondary or less.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

But overall I seriously doubt it had to do with marketing, they could do without
most of the so called "hardcore" fans.

Star Trek fans have spent billions on movies and merchandise.

And those fans are still out there. Now, it's true that they've been showing up in smaller and smaller numbers, of late.

Whether that's due to natural fan attrition (or, as Berman liked to call it, 'fan burn-out') or, more likely, due to increasingly shitty t.v. series and movies, there's no way that Paramount is going to turn its back on all of the potential revenue that those existing fans will fork over if this movie revitalizes the franchise.

Nimoy as Old Spock is the perfect gimmick. It's a nice nod to the old show, and also an umbilical cord to all the merchandise and baggage of canon. And it can all be tacked on to a movie that could otherwise probably stand on its own without him. Canon is basically a marketing ploy to keep you buying more shit, anyway. This is just the logical ;) extension of that.

Nimoy is there to say, "Hey, old fans. You still have to watch this. This still counts. You're still on the hook. You can't just pretend it never happened. Canon. Canon. Canon. Get out your wallets."

The only question that remains, for me, is whether there will be even the slightest hint in the movie proper about the old timeline remaining secure while the new timeline goes forward, or if that can only be gleaned from behind-the-scenes interviews from Orci and the like. I tend to lean toward the latter, as the less they try to explain this mess during the film, the less likely they are to confuse the newbies. It just depends on how hard they want to hammer in that message.

And let's not forget that Old Spock will also be a pitchman to the newbies, too. "Hey kids, if you like this movie, there's a whole lot more where that came from! Look behind the curtain at all of these DVDs, on sale now at wherever DVDs are sold!" Don't think for a second that Paramount isn't hoping that some of the newbies are going to go back and load up on 'what they've been missing.'
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

And let's not forget that Old Spock will also be a pitchman to the newbies, too. "Hey kids, if you like this movie, there's a whole lot more where that came from! Look behind the curtain at all of these DVDs, on sale now at wherever DVDs are sold!" Don't think for a second that Paramount isn't hoping that some of the newbies are going to go back and load up on 'what they've been missing.'

A nice externality.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

And those fans are still out there. Now, it's true that they've been showing up in smaller and smaller numbers, of late.

Star Treks two biggest hit films, and best opening weekend for a Trek
film were fueled by non Trek fans having interest and seeing it. TNG was
so popular because it made a case to the general viewing audience that
Trek could actually be entertaining TV.

Sorry, "hardcore" Trek fans, as much as you all would like to believe,
are not all that big factor when it comes to Trek being successful outside
Toys and DVDs. It's always been; can we make this a viable product to everyone.

Jolan Tru.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

Sorry, "hardcore" Trek fans, as much as you all would like to believe,
are not all that big factor when it comes to Trek being successful outside
Toys and DVDs.

Well, your comment is sufficiently vague, so it would be pointless to debate it.

It's always been; can we make this a viable product to everyone.

Exactly. (Which it really hasn't always been, but I will agree with you here because it serves my purposes.)

And 'everyone' includes both the new fans and the old fans.

Thanks for agreeing with me. :techman:
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

Sorry, "hardcore" Trek fans, as much as you all would like to believe,
are not all that big factor when it comes to Trek being successful outside
Toys and DVDs.

Well, your comment is sufficiently vague, so it would be pointless to debate it.

It's always been; can we make this a viable product to everyone.

Exactly.

And 'everyone' includes both the new fans and the old fans.

Thanks for agreeing with me. :techman:

It's only vague because you left out my explanation.

Everyone includes us aswell yes, but the focus when it comes down to it needs
to be on everyone but us. We are not a big enough market to focus on and
frankly I think this movie would be shit if they catered to most fans on this board.
 
Re: Old Spock as Narrator/Pitchman/Skeptical Trekkie (Probable Spoile

But deeper than that, Nimoy has our trust. (I will assume the role of a 'skeptical Trekkie' for the rest of this post, to further illustrate my point.) Fans all over teh Internets have decided that this movie must be good solely because Nimoy has agreed to be in it, so clearly Nimoy's goodwill aura has extended over the production even before the movie has been released.

Star Trek V would seem to refute this point. :p
 
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