Obsidian Order & Tal Shiar aftermath

[PorthosShadow]

As political and DS9 could get it has always suprised me this question or topic was never covered. How did the Obsidian order seemingly implod after the failed attack on The Founders homeword yet the Tal Shiar some how managed to survive. Also the Obsedian order collapsed there was almost a seemingly instant upriseing on Cardassia yet Romulus seemed uneffected.

Conclusions:
1. The Obsedian Order bet the whole farm on the attack.

2. The Tal Shiar wasn't quite so brazin, maybe they are more Vulcan
than they would care to admit.

3. This may indicate that the Obsedian order was so oppressive to its
people that it was only a matter of time before everything blew up.

4. The Tal Shiar isn't nearly as oppressive or they are just more effecient
than The Order.

To be honest, I just think The Tal Shiar had enough doubt in the success of the attack and they didn't simply throw everything and the kitchen sink into the operation.

 

[Gojirob]

As political and DS9 could get it has always suprised me this question or topic was never covered. How did the Obsidian order seemingly implod after the failed attack on The Founders homeword yet the Tal Shiar some how managed to survive. Also the Obsedian order collapsed there was almost a seemingly instant upriseing on Cardassia yet Romulus seemed uneffected.

Conclusions:
1. The Obsedian Order bet the whole farm on the attack.

2. The Tal Shiar wasn't quite so brazin, maybe they are more Vulcan
than they would care to admit.

3. This may indicate that the Obsedian order was so oppressive to its
people that it was only a matter of time before everything blew up.

4. The Tal Shiar isn't nearly as oppressive or they are just more effecient
than The Order.

To be honest, I just think The Tal Shiar had enough doubt in the success of the attack and they didn't simply throw everything and the kitchen sink into the operation.

My speculation has always been that the Tal Shiar has a redundancy, with trained agents remaining onworld in any major undertaking. Another possibility is that while the O-O was both secret police and foreign espionage agency on Cardassia, perhaps the Tal Shiar was only foreign espionage. Back on Romulus, the secret police perhaps then also assumed their name and powers when they were wiped away. This would have overburdened this agency, maybe leading to the tentative changes we saw in ST Ten.

 

[Jono]

The order wasn't helped by Tain, who seemed to have gone on a murder spree before the attack so to make his return to the head of the order a smooth one after the battle. You would think that would mean senior members of the Order that didn't accept his come back or his role as the head of the attack on the Founders would have been killed.

After the battle you then could have a power vacuum and infighting in the remains of the order. Given how the order operated it wouldn't be hard to believe that they started to kill each to try and get to the top.

Also given Tain was captured and would have been interrograted the Dominion could have used this info to then go out and kill other order members for revenge or just part of a general plan to destablise the Union.

As for why the Romulans didn't rebel or whatever, it would be down to their system of government. The Cardassians were governed by the military and the order, with a powerless civilian body for show there as well. Romulan has a senate...which would seem to be more democratic, so the population of the star empire might feel it is represented by those in charge. In Cardassia the didn't seem to be the case, there was a grow dissadent movement that the order couldn't crush and in recent times under the Central Command Cardassian things were going a bit south, they lost Bajor, the Maquis problem appeared, there were a number of incidents between Starfleet and the Cardassian military that were embarrassing for the union. It looked like the union was heading towards political strife anyway, the attack on the Founders probably just forced the issue sooner.

 

[Braxton]

The Tal Shiar was allowed to use military hardware since it was formed. The Obsidian Order was not allowed to use it. It would seem that when they built their fleet they had pretty much all their operatives in the fleet. Any that weren't probably turned on each other or were not capable of maintaining the Order in the same capacity. The Order had to have bet everything on the attack, they had most of their operatives in the fleet and many were killed by Tain before the mission. The Tal Shiar is a much larger organization and bet only a portion of their available ships to the mission (half at most). The Romulans are cunning and wouldn't put all their eggs in one basket.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

4. The Tal Shiar isn't nearly as oppressive or they are just more effecient
than The Order.

Romulans may be more inherently loyal to each other than Cardassians, so whatever secret police they have, doesn't need to be as oppressive. Those Cardies sure loved to fight with each other, Dukat vs. Garak being only the most extreme example. Maybe it's because we haven't seen too many Rommies in depth, but I haven't noticed a lot of in-fighting among them.

Romulan has a senate...which would seem to be more democratic, so the population of the star empire might feel it is represented by those in charge.

It's possible that Romulans have an authentic democracy, as the term "Senate" implies. Just because a society is democratic doesn't guarantee that it is peaceful towards its neighbors. If Romulans are inherently xenophobic just as they are loyal towards others of their kind, they could be vicious and imperialistic in their outward face and still completely democratic within their own culture.