"Observer Effect"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Damian, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Damian

    Damian Captain Captain

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    I originally posted this in an older thread. I wasn't sure if I should have created a new thread on it or not since there was an older thread on it (I started a new thread on an older book once and someone had told me there was a thread already though it was a few years old--I'm not sure what the time limit is to post on a thread that hasn't had a reply in a long time before creating a new one, this one was about 4 years). In any event I copied it here.

    --I've been watching Enterprise and just finished this episode again and I was thinking of a discussion on another board a few weeks back. We were discussing how out of character it seemed for the Organians to be 'observing' in the first place since in 'Errand of Mercy' they indicated contact with life forms such as ourselves all but disgusts them.

    Moving beyond that, I also found it out of character that the Organians would have let other species knowingly become infected in the first place. That they wouldn't have eliminated the source of the virus so people would not have to suffer. The Organians frankly didn't seem to be that cold blooded to me (or at the very least I couldn't imagine then 'observing' the suffering of others).

    Otherwise I thought it was one of the best episodes of the season. I thought the actors did a good job and I actually thought Scott Bakula turned in a great performance, esp. his emotional, heart wrenching plea at the end to the Organians.

    Dr Phlox was good too. His righteous anger at the Organians was well played.

    Also I love horror films and movies that give you the creeps and the moment when Hoshi and Trip turn to see "T'Pol" and "Phlox" watching them from the window was spine tingling eerie. When I first saw the episode that scene gave me a bit of a jump too.

    Really name dropping the Organians was probably the only miss IMO. They could have created a new higher order species, or even name dropped another mentioned somewhere else in another series that didn't have any major development if they wanted.
     
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  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    If they clean up one mess, why not another?

    Spend the rest of time baby proofing the universe for the younger races.

    Meanwhile not all races deserve to go on.

    And if they all did go on, then someone like Thanos would have to do something about it.
     
  3. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought this episode sucked. The two worst characters playing two even worse characters.
     
  4. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    My favorite season 4 episode!!

    Great TOS feel.

    When I first saw it, I thought Hoshi was being killed off :wah:

    So glad they didn't schwack her.
     
  5. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Commodore Commodore

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    This episode would have been fine except for the fan service of making the aliens Organians. They could have been something totally different with no change to the end result of the episode. Instead, they just chipped away at the continuity a little more and portrayed the Organians as totally 'out of character' with those we saw in Errand of Mercy.
     
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  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then again, this was their military or at least department of the exterior in action. We wouldn't expect much similarity with the folks back home if this were any other species.

    Should we expect unusual similarity from the Organians? They may be noncorporeal, but they are still individuals, with individual agendas, in "Errand of Mercy".

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  7. Damian

    Damian Captain Captain

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    I am currently reading the Bantam book "Trek to Madworld" which features a madcap Organian. Though in that case he is sort of a rogue, where in "Observer Effect" they represent the Organian leadership.
     
  8. HolidayRomantic

    HolidayRomantic hyperpolypyroferricist Moderator

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    Glad you started a new thread and reposted your thoughts, Damian. I adore this episode. :adore:

    As for posting in an old thread, a good rule of thumb is, if it's been a couple months since anyone's posted in it, please start a new thread. You can always include a link to the old thread if there's something relevant there that you want to refer to.
     
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  9. Damian

    Damian Captain Captain

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    Yeah, other than the Organians being name-dropped it was a great episode. I know Bakula has gotten some criticism for his portrayal of Archer in the past, and I'll admit some of it was fair. He could be a bit stiff at times, almost like he was trying too hard. This was definitely not one of those times though. He was excellent in this episode.

    Partly character wise I think Archer always had a soft spot for Hoshi, probably since he convinced her to come and to stick with it. He almost seemed like a father figure, or maybe a better analogy a big brother figure. I remember when he returned to the Enterprise in Storm Front when they all thought he died on the Xindi weapon she ran over to give him a hug like you would a big brother who just came back from war. So her dying in that scene really hit him hard and I thought Bakula portrayed that anguish very well. And Trip was his friend so that tore him up also. But his speech to the Organians at the end was one of his best performances. He was emotional yet not over the top.

    I think Phlox too was excellent. He too had bonded with Hoshi and it was tearing him up to see her suffer as well. And I loved his anger at the Organians "appalling" he called them and I couldn't help but agree with him.

    But Archer summed it up best when he talked about how he himself had to deal with noninterference issues and when 'Reed' said then "we are in agreement" and Archer said no and explained why. How they could not only stand by and allow people to suffer which is bad enough, but to observe that suffering and watched people die was horrific (and out of character I thought for the Organians--even Q isn't that cold). And it was pretty telling when Archer did what the Organians probably should have, made sure no one ever suffered from the virus again.
     
  10. at Quark's

    at Quark's Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Is the difference really irreconcilable though ?

    The Entganians give humanity their first assessment. According to the script their main criterion (at the time) is whether the species' intelligence is developed enough for First Contact. The result of that assessment seems to be: "no, not yet, but in relatively short order (a few thousand years) they will/might be, and perhaps we need to start considering other criteria as well".

    The Tosganians seem to be as "intuitively repelled" by these lower lifeforms as the Entganians are. Except that they now seem to be somewhat more concerned about the fate of such 'lower' species. They now know that Humanity (at least) might hold a promise for the not-too-distant future, giving them barely 5000 years to prepare for that, of which about 100 have passed. So while they might be interested in their potential, at (TOS) present, humanity is still way too primitive to not repulse them. Also, they only really get involved because Kirk and Kor are starting a brawl under their very noses, they didn't stop any other war in Starfleet history. So perhaps their ultimate motives are simply that a war going on in their own house would, well, inconvenience them.

    So perhaps the difference isn't that large, really.