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"O Herbert, Herbert, wherefore art thou Herbert?"

Qonundrum

Just graduated from Camp Ridiculous
Premium Member
"Wherefore art thou" pretty much is old English for "why are you", and it fits in surprisingly perfectly.



I don't officially know if the official reason for the slur "Herbert" originated, though I'll happily take a guess. To cut a long story short, the following author may be the source of the episode's humorous attempt at making a slur.

To inflate the story longer:

While some postulated the name of a certain staffmember on the Star Trek production team whose surname is "Solow", I stumbled on what might be a contender for the title of "allegorical referential in-joke": A book called "HIPPIES - HYPOCRISY and "HAPPINESS" is the title and get a load of the author:

Herbert Armstrong

The book's synopsis reads, in part:

The "Hippies" have emerged as a whole new subculture around the world. The drug-taking cult has rejected modern society, rebelled against the Establishment, and withdrawn to a psychedelic world of bizarre thrills.

I'm not going to post links to the book, but reader discretion is advised...

Unfortunately Memory Alpha (& Beta) both do not know the official origin(s) of Adam and co. using the name "Herbert" as a pejorative. Or, perhaps, the name "Herbert" could be a complete coincidence...

But if it's true that "Herbert" was found and as a reference to a very anti-hippie person, that just feels like that's the case.

That makes a lot more sense than the belief some have in that "Herbert" was a reference to Herbert Solow, despite him being a staunch ally of the show, even during its darkest times (source: Memory Alpha). Despite that, Solow thought the moniker "great bird of the galaxy" was silly (source: Simply Syndicated's Starbase 66 -- try saying that while not sober but with Sally by the seashore.)

Which suggests Solow was not the "Herbert" that "Eden" was mocking and to be frank, Armstrong makes far more sense as real life hippies hated the culture that Armstrong allegedly exemplifies.

I might start looking into the making-of books to see if this book and author are mentioned, but I'd almost be more surprised if it wasn't the catalyst behind the slur's development. Hippies hated the establishment, of which Herbert Armstrong seems pretty much an exemplary member of. Indeed, Armstrong points out two types of hippies:

Our interviews with hippies have revealed that there are basically TWO KINDS of hippie-there is the honest, sincere dropout who became disillusioned with the world and society around him. They sincerely believe the world is a rotten place and want nothing to do with it. So they withdraw, rebel, and become alienated.
Then there is the pseudo-hippie. He (or she) only goes into hippiedom for the sex, the excitement, the "thrills," and to get away from Mom and Dad. This hippie doesn't believe in peace or the hippie philosophy -but he does believe in free sex, having fun, and rebellion!

Note how "Eden" shows two types of hippies as well, given their dialogue: Rad being the latter, Irina and Adam being the former. Dr Sevrin may be a nutter but he is given enough exposition with Trek's penchant for giving villains an added dimension and even attempts at sympathy. But Sevrin is reacting to what a biological reaction gave him and conflated it into a societal one. Witness McCoy's own (slightly heavyhanded and one-dimensional) describing of the root cause:

There's a nasty little bug evolved in the last few years, Jim. Our aseptic, sterilized civilizations produced it: Synthococcus novae. It's deadly. We can immunise against it, but haven't learned to lick all the problems yet.

Noting that bacteria and virii are known to mutate to adapt, and completely new diseases are very much possible, Synthococcus novae in the Trek universe was a real thing and McCoy reveals some accomplishments have been made, but not fast enough, with Sevrin taking things way too personally to the point of creating a solution that simply isn't feasible, hence the claim of "insanity" being implied. How can one not sympathize? The trouble is, going to an alien world and living there would introduce new problems that might be worse... of which Adam discovers firsthand and Sevrin outright ignores despite being a doctor and despite the raw evidence around him.

Also note, Sevrin managing to get people from numerous planets in on his... great cause to engage in radical de-evolution... going backwards never resolves anything...

For a much-hated story, "Eden" is far more complex than what many viewers (then or now) realize and I'm a bit late to this party in that regard.

But back to the main topic, though the tangent still pertained directly to "The Way to Eden"'s moralizing:

Spock (who seemed cognizant of both sides of the issue) pointed out in one scene without any emotional subcontext,

Herbert was a minor official notorious for his rigid and limited patterns of thought.

based on name association alone, I can understand why some would pin that on Herb Solow - a more direct take on the verbiage would imply a television show maker during the time in which the show was not doing well. But Memory Alpha's evidence prevailing, that contradicts and allegories are rarely direct as such. The best ones flip the opposite viewpoints, noting the Borg was a parody of the Federation despite superficial differences.

But I digressed again. I feel certain Armstrong was the catalyst for the pejorative being created. Not Solow. Or this is one heck of a coincidence that makes the grand canyon look like a crack in the sidewalk by comparison.
 
But I digressed again. I feel certain Armstrong was the catalyst for the pejorative being created. Not Solow. Or this is one heck of a coincidence that makes the grand canyon look like a crack in the sidewalk by comparison.
According to Memory Alpha (take it for what's it worth, here):
The references to the insult "Herbert" and the official it was named after were inserted at the behest of production executive Douglas S. Cramer. It is thought that they were digs at his predecessor, Herbert F. Solow, though Herbert Hoover has also been suggested as a target.
If Cramer was responsible for "Herbert", then we need to look into his reasoning. Based on how he treated Star Trek during Season Three, I'm not surprised "Herbert" wasn't dubbed over with "Douglas" or "Cramer"... :lol:
 
Armstrong makes far more sense as real life hippies hated the culture that Armstrong allegedly exemplifies.
Problem with that is that the show wasn't being made by real-life hippies. A production in-joke seems far more likely to me.
 
Spock knows what the hidden meaning is....

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I note that Herbert is an English surname.

One Herbert family was an important noble family:

The Herbert family is an Anglo-Welsh noble family founded by William Herbert, known as "Black William", the son of William ap Thomas, founder of Raglan Castle, a follower of Edward IV of England in the Wars of the Roses. The name Herbert originated in 1461 when William was granted the title Baron Herbert of Raglan, having assumed an English-style surname in place of his Welsh patronymic, ap William.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_family

One famous Herbert in Hollywood no long before TOS was Charles Herbert Saperstein, (1948-2015), a child actor under the name Charles Herbert.

Hubert sounds a lot like Herbert, and Hubert Humphrey was a famous politician in those days.

So there are a couple more possibilities beside Herbert Solow, Herbert Hoover, and Herbert Armstrong.

And I forgot about science fiction author Frank Herbert, who was getting famous during the time of TOS due to his Dune novels.
 
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It's also a fun name to say over and over and a name that is not associated with "cool".

Like the nerd always being named Eugene, Herbert just doesn't project "fun".

And it's a nice 2 syllable name with a nice strong consonant at the end.
 
Interesting thoughts. :) I think you may very well be right.

It's not often acknowledged that an under-current of hippie culture were that there were also a lot of people who, for their own reasons, were eager to appear to be a part of the culture while really being all about exploiting the genuine hippies. These are the people who by the 1980s had become stockbrokers, that 'Gordon Gecko' type, basically becoming 'The Man' who they'd once rallied against so publically in their teenage years.

So yeah. There were definitely 'real hippies', and those who sought only to tap into the culture without (as it were) inhaling.
 
I was going to mention Charles Herbert, the child actor of the fifties but hasn't realised that he'd passed! I didn't know his real name was Saperstein either! I need to get back to one of my favourite passions and quickly!
JB
 
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