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NV team's reaction to WEAT streaming fiasco

sithlord

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Note: I would have posted his over at the NV board, but they seem like "ban happy despots" at the moment.

I was reading through the messages boards over at the New Voyages site, looking for further reactions from people who had managed to see World Enough and Time. I happened upon a locked and pinned thread titled "Bit Torrents and Shares for WEat" by one of the board moderators, GE1947. I don't know what the etiquette is for copying and posting a post from a different board, but suffice to say the NV folks are very displeased that viewers resorted to copying files off of the viewing site and posed them as torrents. So displeased that they are releasing "crawl bots" to look for unauthorized servers and will ban any members that "stole" the episode.

I'm a bit stunned by this position. Do these people not realize how the internet works? They admit that the site they used had insufficient security, so they yell at purported burglars instead of the folks who couldn't accomplish their job? And, in all honesty, what theft occured? They put their product on a website for all to see. Of course people are going to copy it to their personal computer, that's net culture.

For them to attack their own audience like this is troublesome. It screams of extreme hubris, for one thing. Basically, the NV team failed to accomplish their goal. How is that the fault of the audience? If obtaining an accurate count of downloads was this important, they should have contacted someone like Apple and offered it through itunes as a free download.

It just sucks to see this reaction after having really enjoyed viewing the episode. And yes, I had to resort to a torrent to see it a second time because the primary streaming site kept crashing. I've since seen the official torrent site for NV list WEAT. I downloaded it again so NV would get to count me as an audience member.
 
It sounds like a more official response was posted on trekmovie.com:
James Cawley's note through trekmovie.com

I feel bad for the STNV team and for the board admin GE1947 and volunteer Sarge who have been trying to respond to the complaints on the STNV boards. They both sound really upset and stressed in their posts, angry at those that they perceive as stealing the content because a file was downloaded instead of "streamed" and especially upset at those posting WEaT to torrent sites. It looks like they were trying to get some kind of deal with CBS :confused: by providing accurate numbers on the download counts but the combination of the site going down and torrents going up may have screwed things up for them.

Unfortunately, I think there's a lot they could've done ahead of time to make sure things went at least okay for some and not anywhere from 3 to 12 hour "streams" for most people. I won't belabor the point... there's already a lot of useful suggestions from concerned viewers on the STNV forum. Months of hard work, national promotion, coverage by news outlets, blogs and fan sites alike all got derailed by bad IT planning and implementation.

Let's hope that their relocation to new servers is enough to satisfy users and get such a great product like WEaT to more eyeballs. More importantly, let's hope that they learned the distribution problem lessons for the next episode.

Cheers.
 
Thing is, NV delivered a wonderfull episode, but Magic Time Online failed to deliver in a big way, at the premiere and for fans online. Thursday night i analysed the distribution process and MTO server(s) and I was shocked to see how basic (simple progressive streaming) and unsecure there servers were, any one with basic understanding of reading html coding could have easily found were the files are etc.. Anyway I reported all the security holes to Gary and Sarge so they could be closed right away but it did not happen, again i blame Magic Time and Magic Time alone NOT the crew of NV.

About Flash Distribution:

There are two common ways that video's are presented with flash players, the most common way is Progressive, what this means is that when you veiw a video the video file is kept on the server and is downloaded to your PC's temporary cache from there your browser plays it through the flash video player you are looking at. This method is the simplist way to do it (and what Magic Time used), the only 2 issues are it leaves a copy of the video in your temp cache were you can just copy it off and keep it, also this uses up alot more bandwith (since it's really just a download) and as such when you have 100's or 1000's of people trying to do this at the same time you server gets completly bogged down, this was the case with Magic Time's server runing at only 5-8 k (dial up speed) the first day. My recomendation was if you needed to it this way you need at least 3 to 4 servers (becuase it's going to be high demand) to split that load not ONE!

The other more commercial way to stream is using Professional Streaming Flash Server, in this method a server is running a software that sends the video in RMVB (there other varients of this too) streams (like what realplayer does), that the flash player will interpet and play. This way there is NO file left in your temp cache and since you are using lower bandwidth RMVB streams you can have a ton more people trying to watch vs. the progressive method. Since it does not leave a cached file the only way to 'copy' this is recording your screen with software like Camtasia 4, but the quality goes down somewhat when you do that. Big companys like CBS, NBC, ABC use this method.

So where did Magic Time (the Sharewell Group) go wrong? IMO it is inexperience and poor planning (was there even a plan B ??) Any one who deals with Video distribution should have known if you go the progressive route you really need more than one server to split the load.

It just make me mad that New Voyages greatest episode was hampered by the inexperience of this company, there were other ways this could have been done and tracked.
 
^^^ QFT.

I do video encoding for distro/streaming, and was also shocked at how amateurishly this was done. Hell, I could have run the episode from my personal box as a streamed FLV or even QT and it would have held up better.
 
Arlo said:
^^^ QFT.

I do video encoding for distro/streaming, and was also shocked at how amateurishly this was done. Hell, I could have run the episode from my personal box as a streamed FLV or even QT and it would have held up better.

That was my thought too. This company is new, but still..
 
FleetLord said:
Thing is, NV delivered a wonderfull episode, but Magic Time Online failed to deliver in a big way, at the premiere and for fans online. Thursday night i analysed the distribution process and MTO server(s) and I was shocked to see how basic (simple progressive streaming) and unsecure there servers were, any one with basic understanding of reading html coding could have easily found were the files are etc.. Anyway I reported all the security holes to Gary and Sarge so they could be closed right away but it did not happen, again i blame Magic Time and Magic Time alone NOT the crew of NV.
Yeah, I've posted the links to directory files here on the forum and it's a fact that anyone could see the links to files. The way Magic Time did it was pretty amateur.


Arlo said:
^^^ QFT.

I do video encoding for distro/streaming, and was also shocked at how amateurishly this was done. Hell, I could have run the episode from my personal box as a streamed FLV or even QT and it would have held up better.
True. A simple and open source program like VLC ( http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ and http://www.videolan.org/vlc/streaming.html for more info ) would do that for free.

But fortunately the episode was astonish.


Trek1701
 
Yeah, I don't get the resort to streaming. The only reason I got to see the ep was because of torrents. On the other hand, this looked so good that I actually installed a torrent client. I wouldn't have done that for any other NV. (I might have done it for Exeter.)

If the episode hadn't been so outstanding, this delivery method might have left a really bad taste in my mouth.
 
Folks,
The cast and crew of New Voyages is/are VERY unhappy with the performance of both MagicTime as well as host company Sharewell. They clearly did not think this whole thing thru....and as I pointed out to the CEO of Sharewell..."overpromised, and underdelivered" on their end of the deal. Basic business premises ignored. Please don't fault NV directly for this colossal screw up. From my limited knowlege of things..we at NV felt that this could happen, but trusted in good faith in Sharewell.....whoops. I know that we all feel terrible that we could not provide the sort of experience everyone was hoping for (including me...I couldnt make it to LA)and for that we at NV are deeply sorry.
Live and learn I guess.....

-s-


Scott Moody
Producer: Star Trek New Voyages
 
Scott, it's no one fault at NV, NV delivered an awesome episode we all now this is Magic Time's fault and know not to tie you two (NV & MTO) in as one entity. I myself am only being harsh on Magic Time, in the hopes that everyone will live and learn from this experience, what does not kill us only makes us stronger they say. I'm 100% positive that we will not see any of these issues with Blood & Fire. Keep the faith man! you guys have really outdone yourselves with this episode and this is something you will always be proud of!! :)
 
Agreed. I'd very much like to watch this episode. You guys are getting good.
 
I don't fault NV, I can wait to see WEaT, because I know it'll be top notch. I am upset with Magic Time and the host company. I was having a really bad day on Thursday and that was to me going to be the highlight. Am I disappointed? Yes, but I'm over it. I had a feelng when it was announced that the premiere would be streaming that something like this would happen. I look at this as a learning experience.

As long as NV is around I'll be there to watch and support. It keeps getting better with each episode that is released. Gene's vision has not only been built on but the Enterprise may now get through it's five year mission as he had intended.
 
mthompson1701 said:
I don't fault NV, I can wait to see WEaT, because I know it'll be top notch. I am upset with Magic Time and the host company. I was having a really bad day on Thursday and that was to me going to be the highlight. Am I disappointed? Yes, but I'm over it. I had a feelng when it was announced that the premiere would be streaming that something like this would happen. I look at this as a learning experience.

As long as NV is around I'll be there to watch and support. It keeps getting better with each episode that is released. Gene's vision has not only been built on but the Enterprise may now get through it's five year mission as he had intended.
I totally second that. Here is hoping, that in the next days there will be a stream available for all of us who have not seen WEAT yet ... I can hardly wait any longer ... :scream:
 
^^...We've been waiting over a year for the next installment of Exeter...a few more days for WEAT is a piece of cake. :D
 
So, any idea how long until they post the ep for ordinary download, or are they not going to?

I hate torrents and streams. I have neither the hardware nor the patience to mess with it. It takes me long enough (several hours, minimum) to just download the ordinary way, nor can I 'record' the material to watch at my leisure if it's streamed.
 
I just can't understand why they wouldn't have ten or twelve different streaming sites running simultaneously. Think of all the trustworthy sites that would have been more than happy to lend them some bandwith for mirroring the file. It's like they've forgotten that their entire production's most valuable asset is the fans.

If they somehow imagined that the file wouldn't be downloaded, the could have at least asked fans to donate money for help setting up multiple download sites.
 
It seems to me a bit ironic that they're complaining about their episodes being "stolen" when they've been produced using someone else's intellectual property in the first place.
 
FleetLord said:
They are working on something that will be better, i am told. :)

Hey ... this is starting to sound a little like Exeter!


Jimbo, it sounds like there's some sort of negotiation with CBS involved ... they want a count of the downloads. I can only speculate what that means, but the fact that the actual owners of the trademark are nosing around could be very good for New Voyages, or very bad. Either way, it's clear the NV team has a valid reason to be upset about uncounted distributions cutting into the figures they turn over to CBS.
 
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