Novelverse In The Wake Of On-Screen Changes - How Do Authors Feel?

[acappellasaurus]

I was thinking about this last night, and thought I would ask, especially since I know there are authors in this forum. Apologies if this has already been discussed before.

I was thinking about how much I really enjoyed Immortal Coil/Cold Equations/Light Fantastic, and also some of the post-TNG Picard stories, VOY, etc. In light of what looks to be coming up on screen, there is a chance some of those novels will be considerably off now. I know about all the general thinking that the novels remain valid in an alternate universe/timeline scenario, or can just be read for a compelling story - I do get that, and what comes on screen will not diminish my enjoyment of them. I was more just curious how authors really felt about these situations. I know in my job, if I do a lot of work and put out something great, only to find it fully negated not long after, it's a little frustrating.

 

[The Wormhole]

IIRC, most of the authors in the other threads have said they accept this as a reality of writing tie-in fiction.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yep. It comes with the territory.

It's funny. When IDW did some KHAN comics that pretty much ignored my trilogy, some well-meaning fans were indignant on my behalf. I appreciated the sentiment, but, honestly, the comics didn't bother me at all. I didn't invent Khan, Khan does not belong to me, I was hardly the first person to write about Khan nor did I expect to be the last or to be treated as the final word on the topic.

We're only borrowing other people's toys, so we can't really get all territorial about them.

 

[Christopher]

I'm surprised the novel continuity has lasted as long as it has. I've always known it would probably end up contradicted by new Trek someday, but then, that's an occupational hazard for any science fiction writer. Even in original SF, your work will eventually be contradicted by new scientific discoveries or just by the calendar catching up. All you can do is try to tell the best stories you can in the present.

Then again, we don't really know yet what's going to happen with the novel continuity now. Everything's conjecture at this point, and it's best not to rush ahead of the facts.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Let's not burn our bridges before we come to them.

 

[Greg Cox]

Let's not burn our bridges before we come to them.

"Canon is the fire in which we burn."

 

[acappellasaurus]

Just as an aside, it's really awesome to communicate with the authors of these great stories - I appreciate your contributions to the genre, both Trek and otherwise, and have worn out most of my copies of your work. Cheers!

 

[Damian]

Yeah, I think we viewers are more 'upset' by the likely possibility large swaths of the litverse will be undone by the new show. I've yet to see an author be upset by that. Every author that has posted here acknowledges it as an occupational hazard. Now, is there some small part of them that is sad too see their work 'undone'? I've never seen any say they were. I guess partly that's because they know going in it can happen at any time. They go into it with their eyes open.

And part of it is that the books still exist. CBS and/or Paramount is not going to come and take your books away because the show is not consistent with them.

And I'm ok with the idea of considering them an alternate universe from the Picard show. Now in my own 'perfect' world, since I loved the continuing litverse, would be that the show picks up where the books left off. But I also know that's unrealistic and not going to happen. The best we can hope for is maybe some piece of the novelverse survives. Maybe a plot line, a character from the books. Maybe Picard has a son, perhaps the Borg are gone (I know they were featured in the preview--but it could be a flashback), maybe there's a Lt. Chen. It'd be nice to see something.

For me, what's sad is that at some point the continuing litverse as it exists in the 24th century now will likely end. As a reader, I'd have no problem reading continuing TNG, DS9, Voyager and Titan books based on the existing litverse even if they don't jive with the Picard show. There are lots of canon examples in Star Trek of parallel universes. BUT, I seriously doubt Pocketbooks will continue releasing books in a timeline that's different from the upcoming show. And Christopher is right. It's amazing it has lasted as long as it has. It goes back to at least Avatar (maybe a bit further even). I loved it all.

The only thing I'll say is David Mack said they have a plan. Who knows, maybe they have some way they are going to somehow link the novels to the show. I've seen what may of our authors can do making inconsistencies somehow make sense. I get the impression they find it a stimulating intellectual challenge, somehow making a square peg go in a round hole and in such a way it even makes sense.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, I think we viewers are more 'upset' by the likely possibility large swaths of the litverse will be undone by the new show. I've yet to see an author be upset by that. Every author that has posted here acknowledges it as an occupational hazard. Now, is there some small part of them that is sad too see their work 'undone'? I've never seen any say they were. I guess partly that's because they know going in it can happen at any time. They go into it with their eyes open.

Well, admittedly, I would be disappointed if (and it is still an "if" at this point) the continuity I've invested the past 15 years in building came to an end. I enjoy tying my fiction together in a shared universe, weaving in cross-references among different works, and it'd be a pity to give all that up and have to start over from scratch. But it would still be there as a cohesive body of fiction to be proud of. Stories don't disappear when they get contradicted or superseded, and they don't get any less "real" since they were never real to begin with. And the challenge of building something new in its place could be worthwhile too.

Besides, like it or not, it's never been our choice. We're just guests in someone else's territory. Heck, whatever may happen with my Trek continuity, I've got two new original novels coming out in the next year or so, building up my main original SF universe in a big way. And that universe is mine to do what I want with, to keep as consistent as I want for as long as I want. (Or not, as the case may be. The new duology retells and continues the events of my first published story, and supersedes it in the continuity, since some of the details are changed.)

 

[OCD Geek]

And honestly, worst case scenario, over twenty years is a damn fine run. The Duaneverse only lasted about seven years before Richard Arnold shot it in the head. Hell, the Berman era itself lasted eighteen years.

If you go by Avatar, the Litverse matched it. If you go by The Lives of Dax, the Listverse beat it by two years. And if you go by New Frontier, the Litverse beat it by four. Trekkies are still going to be discovering this rich (potentially) alternate universe decades from now. And as a Trek II-IV & VI/Deep Space Nine fan*, the Litverse (which is based so much around DS9 and really has an Ira Behr/Nicholas Meyer flavor to it) and The Orville are what finally got me into TNG, Voyager and Enterprise.

*Although I also dug two out of three of the Kelvinverse films and a couple episodes of Discovery. Hopefully having a showrunner actually last a full season for once, coupled with the soft reboot, will help the show really grow the beard. They've got a great cast that's been saddled with constant chaos behind the scenes the first two seasons. Same damn thing happened with Next Gen and that got better. Fingers crossed.

 

[James Swallow]

I was more just curious how authors really felt about these situations.

This is the life we chose...

I think it's important to keep in mind that this is not even remotely the first time the source material has overwritten the stories in spin-offs, and it won't be the last. We've been here before, and the books are still going. To borrow a quote from another franchise - as Kara Thrace once said, "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again..."

Will I be sad to see stuff I wrote "unhappen"? Sure, because I'm proud of all the Trek fiction I've written and the work we've done to forge a coherent, ongoing narrative - and I think that goes for all my colleagues too.

But if you're hired to write tie-in fiction, you know going in that everything you create always exists in a kind of state of grace, a sort of "Schrödinger's Canon" that both is and is not true until it is firmly contradicted by a TV episode or a movie. As said elsewhere, those stories won't turn to dust or be retconned out of our memories, they're still there to be read and enjoyed - and new universes and new continuities bring new opportunities for storytelling.

 

[Christopher]

The Duaneverse only lasted about seven years before Richard Arnold shot it in the head.

That's a bit unfair. Arnold had his excesses, sure, but the '80s novel continuity was overwritten by TNG itself -- by its portrayal of Klingons, Romulans, etc. in a way that ignored the novel versions entirely. Okay, maybe without Arnold's stringent policies, the novelists of the time might've tried to reconcile their version with the show's version rather than making a clean break, but as long as the shows continued to ignore them, further inconsistencies would've continued to build up.

But if you're hired to write tie-in fiction, you know going in that everything you create always exists in a kind of state of grace, a sort of "Schrödinger's Canon" that both is and is not true until it is firmly contradicted by a TV episode or a movie. As said elsewhere, those stories won't turn to dust or be retconned out of our memories, they're still there to be read and enjoyed - and new universes and new continuities bring new opportunities for storytelling.

I like to say that if the screen canon is history, then what we write is historical fiction. It's stuff that might have happened between the documented "facts," but it makes no pretensions of being anything more than conjecture, and it's just one of several coexisting conjectures alongside the comics and games.

But of course, the canon is conjecture too. All fiction is just about possibilities, not "facts." And the thing about possibilities is that it's good to be open to multiple different ones.

 

[Relayer1]

The best we can hope for is maybe some piece of the novelverse survives. Maybe a plot line, a character from the books.

The only thing I'll say is David Mack said they have a plan. Who knows, maybe they have some way they are going to somehow link the novels to the show. I've seen what may of our authors can do making inconsistencies somehow make sense. I get the impression they find it a stimulating intellectual challenge, somehow making a square peg go in a round hole and in such a way it even makes sense.

Regardless of Mr Mack's plan (which I look forward to), a fair amount of the litverse will probably survive - Enterprise and TOS novels, stories set during the shows, even some early TNG, DS9 and Voyager relaunch novels may remain un-overwritten.

At least until more shows go into production...

 

[Damian]

Well, admittedly, I would be disappointed if (and it is still an "if" at this point) the continuity I've invested the past 15 years in building came to an end.

Will I be sad to see stuff I wrote "unhappen"? Sure

Yeah, I guess that's true enough. While all you guys know the deal, when you invest your time into something, there's probably part of you that hopes to see it survive.

And honestly, worst case scenario, over twenty years is a damn fine run.

Hell, the Berman era itself lasted eighteen years.

You know, that's an interesting point. I generally consider "The Genesis Wave" novels by John Vornholt as the beginning of the continuing TNG storyline, at least that's where the continuing storyline of the current TNG litverse began (and Vornholt refers to his Gemworld duology at times in The Genesis Wave which came out earlier that year). That was back in 2000. I think you could make an argument that DS9: "A Stitch in Time" was at least loosely part of the DS9 litverse continuity, also in 2000, and yes you could do the same for "The Lives of Dax" in 1999.

And I think you could make an argument New Frontier is part of that continuity, at least loosely, which takes you back even further.

But what's interesting is if you retroactively add some of those earlier novels, I certainly think you could go back at least as far as "The Genesis Wave" 19 years ago--the litverse continuity based on the Rick Berman era shows has actually outlasted the Berman era now. That's pretty incredible, at least for Star Trek fiction.

Stories don't disappear when they get contradicted or superseded, and they don't get any less "real" since they were never real to begin with.

Ha-ha. True. Sometimes perspective is a good thing. It's still fiction.

Okay, maybe without Arnold's stringent policies, the novelists of the time might've tried to reconcile their version with the show's version rather than making a clean break, but as long as the shows continued to ignore them, further inconsistencies would've continued to build up.

A shame that was the policy back then. I like a good standalone novel now and again, but consistency is a great thing in fiction. It was interesting to see that Diane Duane in her later Rihannsu novels actually did try to tie her novels into the new TNG-continuity as much as was possible while staying consistent with her own continuing reality. It was one of the few examples I can think of where Pocketbooks released a novel that was at least somewhat inconsistent with canon. But at the same time, where it fit with her story she did incorporate elements of what we learned about Romulans from TNG.

 

[KRAD]

The Motion Picture contradicted Spock Must Die!

First Contact contradicted Federation.

"Second Chances" contradicted Imzadi.

"In a Mirror, Darkly" contradicted Interphase.

The various spinoff TV shows contradicted My Enemy, My Ally and The Final Reflection.

"Affliction"/"Divergence" contradicted half a dozen different novels and comics that postulated what changed the Klingons.

Same shit, different day.

This is the world we live in. We know the gig when we sign the contract.

And, again, I don't stress about what's "real" in a fictional construct. We've had two different live-action takes on Batman this century, with a third on the way, none of which match the original canonical one DC puts out every month. (Heck, DC has changed the canonical one a couple times.) We've had four screen versions of Sherlock Holmes this century that contradict each other and in two cases completely re-do Conan Doyle.

The world can handle differing versions of the same character in the same medium, so it's silly to stress about variations in different media.

 

[Relayer1]

^ Damn you and your colleagues with your common sense KRAD !

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, I guess that's true enough. While all you guys know the deal, when you invest your time into something, there's probably part of you that hopes to see it survive.

Of course it will survive. The stories won't be erased just because a different story presents an incompatible version of events. Again, none of this is even the tiniest bit "real" to begin with. It's all just imaginary stories for entertainment. The Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies "survive" even though there have been two reboots since. Ditto for the Tim Burton Batman movies. Godzilla is on his ninth continuity in Japan alone, yet the original movies still "survive."

As far as personal investment goes, that's what original fiction is for. Doing tie-ins for a favorite franchise is enjoyable and pays the bills, but it's not ours; we have no ownership of it, any more than contractors own the houses they're hired to remodel. What we own, what we invest in more personally, are our original universes. My Troubleshooter and Hub universes. Dave Mack's Dark Arts series. Keith's Precinct and SCPD and all the other universes he has going. And so on.

 

[Damian]

Of course it will survive. The stories won't be erased just because a different story presents an incompatible version of events.

What I meant is in the future...that the upcoming shows allow for future stories in the current litverse to be written mostly uninterrupted. That's still an open question I guess. I'd be surprised if the current relaunches can continue as is though. I admit I am intrigued by David Mack's Twitter post. Perhaps his upcoming "Collateral Damage" novel will give us some clues.

I'm also a bit disappointed that we probably will not see many, if any, further DS9, Voyager (except "To Lose the Earth"), and Enterprise novels going forward (probably Titan too, and sadly I think New Frontier is probably finished as well). I don't think that's just because of the potential conflicts that the new Picard show will bring in. But because there probably won't be any room on the schedule for books based on those shows. Though I still hope your idea of maybe having E-books based on those shows can happen. I'm old fashioned and prefer hard copies...but I'll take an e-book over nothing any day.

As far as personal investment goes, that's what original fiction is for.

I am keeping my eye on this thread: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/non-trek-recommendations-for-trek-readers.300703/unread for after I finish up reading my un-read Star Trek novels. For years I had so many Star Trek novels to catch up on I really didn't take the time to read other fiction. I mean, at one point I had stacks of Star Trek books that I had yet to read. But now, I have maybe 3 or 4 original series novels to read (including 2 Bantam novels) and a handful of Voyager numbered novels to catch up on....oh, and the "Mere Anarchy" collection I picked up and the Gorkon series novels. Then I'm done. I plan on re-reading some older Star Trek books I haven't read in years, decades really. But I'll have time to read other novels and I'd like to branch out. And frankly I think a good place to start would be other books written by you guys. Since I liked many of the Star Trek novels I've read it probably makes sense to read other fiction you guys have written. Plus, of course, I'll continue to read new Star Trek novels as they come out.

 

[Christopher]

And frankly I think a good place to start would be other books written by you guys.

Luckily, I have two coming out within the next year or so. Which are about space exploration and alien contact, but in a very different vein from Star Trek.

 

[James Swallow]

Same shit, different day.
This is the world we live in. We know the gig when we sign the contract.

And, again, I don't stress about what's "real" in a fictional construct. We've had two different live-action takes on Batman this century, with a third on the way, none of which match the original canonical one DC puts out every month. (Heck, DC has changed the canonical one a couple times.) We've had four screen versions of Sherlock Holmes this century that contradict each other and in two cases completely re-do Conan Doyle.

The world can handle differing versions of the same character in the same medium, so it's silly to stress about variations in different media.

/\
This right here.