I'm sure it's completely innocent and he's happy for his brother, but I have to admit I cracked up when I saw Eli's reaction too.
NFL 2015-2016 Season - Maybe extra points actually ... matter? What?
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Eh, I have to disagree on this point. If you thought he was borderline or questionable for it for this prior to the game, what did he do in the game to push himself to 'elite of the elite'? He was awful. To be fair, so was Cam, but nothing he did there pushed him up. And a final record of 2 and 2 in superbowls, with more INTs than TDs, is now elite of the elite? The line again:
Manning: 13/23, 141 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 5 sacks, 56.6 rating, 2 fumbles
Don't get me wrong, he was a great QB, and is up there for sure. I just don't think he's in that final tier with Montana, Brady, and a couple of the others. Is Eli Elite of the Elite? He's also got 2, and it only took him two tries. Manning was a fantastic regular season QB, and while the ring helps, had a tendency to choke in the playoffs. Lots of playoff losses as a top seed, and something like 9 times he lost in the first round of the playoffs. That's not great.
It's a nice story to go out on top, but pretty much every stat (plus the eyeball test) had him as the worst QB in the league this year. And that's with him sitting what, 9 games? He'd have crushed the INT stat had he kept playing. No way he considers coming back, especially since Denver certainly won't bring him back, so he'd have to start over somewhere. Playing a year on some random crappy team will only hurt him, he's gotta call it here.
And just to get in the expected Patriots dig: Brady has as many rings as the entire Manning family, including Archie.
Eh, I have to disagree on this point. If you thought he was borderline or questionable for it for this prior to the game, what did he do in the game to push himself to 'elite of the elite'? He was awful. To be fair, so was Cam, but nothing he did there pushed him up. And a final record of 2 and 2 in superbowls, with more INTs than TDs, is now elite of the elite? The line again:
Manning: 13/23, 141 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 5 sacks, 56.6 rating, 2 fumbles
Don't get me wrong, he was a great QB, and is up there for sure. I just don't think he's in that final tier with Montana, Brady, and a couple of the others. Is Eli Elite of the Elite? He's also got 2, and it only took him two tries. Manning was a fantastic regular season QB, and while the ring helps, had a tendency to choke in the playoffs. Lots of playoff losses as a top seed, and something like 9 times he lost in the first round of the playoffs. That's not great.
It's a nice story to go out on top, but pretty much every stat (plus the eyeball test) had him as the worst QB in the league this year. And that's with him sitting what, 9 games? He'd have crushed the INT stat had he kept playing. No way he considers coming back, especially since Denver certainly won't bring him back, so he'd have to start over somewhere. Playing a year on some random crappy team will only hurt him, he's gotta call it here.
And just to get in the expected Patriots dig: Brady has as many rings as the entire Manning family, including Archie.
I don't think anyone here was ever in doubt that your fascination with running Peyton down somehow ties into his rivalry with Brady. Choker? He's 14 and 13 in the post season with 43 TD's and 25 Int's. He's chased Brady from the playoffs the last three meetings. If you go out of your way to only mention the failures without pointing out that he has actually won 14 post season games then it is an obvious axe you are grinding here. He's won four AFC championships and two Super Bowls. He's won more than he has lost in the post season. You aren't going to be able to make the choker label stick anymore.
I for one was glad to see Denver's victory as being an unequivocally complete team effort, rather than have all the glory focused on one individual. Peyton was good, but wasn't great by any stretch. He's old (by NFL standards) and that age coupled with wisdom and knowledge of the game forced him to trust is entire team to put numbers on the board instead of try to make it all happen himself - something a younger QB full of invincible piss and vinegar wouldn't understand until he got into his 30's. In fact, I was happy to see someone other than the ubiquitous quarterback get Superbowl MVP. Doesn't happen nearly enough, IMO. Denver proved that old rule, "Offense wins games; defense wins championships". That statement was never more true last Sunday, and their win was well deserved.
Can you imagine talking football in that house?
@Scout101 - Brady is great. We all know that. You aren't going to make him greater by shitting on Peyton's legacy.
I took Eli's look as "this ain't over yet". Archie wasn't cheering either.
Less "shitting on Peyton's legacy", as it's hard to do that when I said explicitly that he was a great QB and on the list for sure in the post. I was questioning the 'Elite of the Elite' comment, which seems overly gushing the other way. And trying to figure out how the performance on Sunday cemented that legacy if it was in question on Saturday. He got a ring, but didn't do anything to elevate himself in that game. Wasn't the worst QB performance to win a Superbowl (Big Ben a few years back had a 22 rating or something awful like that), but it wasn't good.
Didn't really think it would be controversial to say that in the Elite QB camp, it's pretty much Montana or Brady, and then the next tier down (all very good, HOF guys). Don't think Manning has done anything to force himself into that conversation, and Sunday definitely wasn't it.
Also questioning 2 Rings as the criteria as Elite of the Elite. Eli also has two, he's certainly not in that category. Too lazy to look up the crappiest QB with two rings, but gotta be some stinkers that just had great Defense or RBs or something, no? Marino has zero, but was better than most QBs with 1, and probably a fair number of the 2-ring club.
Can jump back on me instead, but it would be interesting to at least discuss the questions I asked...
You ever see his opening monologue from when he hosted SNL? He listed his dad's and Eli's accomplishments, then said something like "Mom never made it to the NFL. She was cut by the Dolphins in preseason. She's a huge disappointment to all of us."Can you imagine talking football in that house?
Here it is:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/1493
4 rings - Bradshaw (4-0), Brady (4-2), Montana (4-0)
3 rings - Aikman (3-0)
2 rings - Manning, Peyton (2-2), Staubach (2-2), Elway (2-3), Griese (2-1), Rothlisberger (2-1), and Starr, Plunkett, and Manning, Eli (all 2-0)
Top 3's in the Super Bowl
Passer Rating (Single Game)
Simms
Montana
Plunkett
Passer Rating (All Super Bowls played)
Montana
Plunkett
Wilson
Passes Completed (Single Game)
Brady
Manning, P.
Brees
Passes Completed (All)
Brady
Manning, P.
Warner
Completion Percentage (Single)
Simms
Brees
Montana
Completion Percentage (All)
Aikman
Montana
Manning, P.
Passing Yards (Single)
Warner
Also Warner
Warner Again
Passing Yards (All)
Brady
Warner
Montana
TDs (Single)
Young
Montana
Brady
TDs (All)
Brady
Montana
Bradshaw
It's hard not to look at that list and see the Super Bowl "Elite of the Elite" being Montana, Brady, and a three way tie between Bradshaw, Warner, and Peyton Manning.
3 rings - Aikman (3-0)
2 rings - Manning, Peyton (2-2), Staubach (2-2), Elway (2-3), Griese (2-1), Rothlisberger (2-1), and Starr, Plunkett, and Manning, Eli (all 2-0)
Top 3's in the Super Bowl
Passer Rating (Single Game)
Simms
Montana
Plunkett
Passer Rating (All Super Bowls played)
Montana
Plunkett
Wilson
Passes Completed (Single Game)
Brady
Manning, P.
Brees
Passes Completed (All)
Brady
Manning, P.
Warner
Completion Percentage (Single)
Simms
Brees
Montana
Completion Percentage (All)
Aikman
Montana
Manning, P.
Passing Yards (Single)
Warner
Also Warner
Warner Again
Passing Yards (All)
Brady
Warner
Montana
TDs (Single)
Young
Montana
Brady
TDs (All)
Brady
Montana
Bradshaw
It's hard not to look at that list and see the Super Bowl "Elite of the Elite" being Montana, Brady, and a three way tie between Bradshaw, Warner, and Peyton Manning.
Don't disagree with the first two, and while you can quibble about 1 vs 2, those are the right names. Warner was a very good QB, just don't think he fits in that 3rd spot. His only real hit on the list is yards/passes, part of the Greatest Show on Turf act. Bradshaw isn't on the list as many times as I'd have expected, but gun to my head, I think you take him over Manning and it really isn't a tie there. You wouldn't take him over Brady or Montana, but if those two were off the board, you wouldn't exactly sweat having to take Bradshaw.
And all guys with 4 rings, that got there and won consistently, racked up TD scores on the big stage.
I have trouble doing 1-10 lists or things like that, prefer to think of it as a tiered system. Those three, comfortable saying 'Elite of the Elite', top tier, however you want to call it. Aikman, Peyton, Staubach, and a few others are in that next set for me (See, NOT shitting on Manning). Elite guys, but not the pinnacle. Guys you'd win a shitload of games with, and could carry your team, but if the guys from the first list were available, you'd probably bench this guy for one of those 3.
Wouldn't put Brees or Big Ben in that category, they can go to Very Good levels. Eli has had big moments (unfortunately all against my team, pretty much), but often aggressively mediocre, so he's probably even a level below that, even with a 2-0 record in the big game. Honestly, I think he's too stupid to realize that it's a big moment, so nerves don't phase him
Anything unreasonable or Manning-bashing in that one? I just don't see him in that top tier, and for sure nothing that happened Sunday really changed that (other than being 2-2 is certainly better than 1-3).
When your team is only up 6 points in the 4th quarter, with 4 minutes to play, and you run the ball on 3rd and 6 (or maybe 3rd and 8, forget), kinda says the QB doesn't have it or you don't trust him anymore. TOTALLY an age/diminished skill thing, as prime Manning is obviously a different case, so not arguing this was always the case. He wasn't a game manager, he was deadly in his prime. Just saying it was less about gutting out one more big game before retiring, and more that the Denver D was just incredible and he got a fantastic legacy retirement present from Von Miller and the guys. Manning was almost a spectator in this one.
And all guys with 4 rings, that got there and won consistently, racked up TD scores on the big stage.
I have trouble doing 1-10 lists or things like that, prefer to think of it as a tiered system. Those three, comfortable saying 'Elite of the Elite', top tier, however you want to call it. Aikman, Peyton, Staubach, and a few others are in that next set for me (See, NOT shitting on Manning). Elite guys, but not the pinnacle. Guys you'd win a shitload of games with, and could carry your team, but if the guys from the first list were available, you'd probably bench this guy for one of those 3.
Wouldn't put Brees or Big Ben in that category, they can go to Very Good levels. Eli has had big moments (unfortunately all against my team, pretty much), but often aggressively mediocre, so he's probably even a level below that, even with a 2-0 record in the big game. Honestly, I think he's too stupid to realize that it's a big moment, so nerves don't phase him
Anything unreasonable or Manning-bashing in that one? I just don't see him in that top tier, and for sure nothing that happened Sunday really changed that (other than being 2-2 is certainly better than 1-3).
When your team is only up 6 points in the 4th quarter, with 4 minutes to play, and you run the ball on 3rd and 6 (or maybe 3rd and 8, forget), kinda says the QB doesn't have it or you don't trust him anymore. TOTALLY an age/diminished skill thing, as prime Manning is obviously a different case, so not arguing this was always the case. He wasn't a game manager, he was deadly in his prime. Just saying it was less about gutting out one more big game before retiring, and more that the Denver D was just incredible and he got a fantastic legacy retirement present from Von Miller and the guys. Manning was almost a spectator in this one.
Hard to say whether Brady/Manning was good thing or bad thing for these guys. On the plus side, pushed each other tremendously, and maybe neither gets as good as they do without the guy on the other side driving them to survive these games.
On the con side, either of these guys would have at least a couple more rings if the other guy never played football, right?
Maybe Manning IS the greatest of all time if Brady never got drafted. Would give him a bunch more AFC championships, and several more Superbowl appearances. Plus more regular season wins, so maybe higher seeding, more byes, etc.
Same for Brady. Does Montana even get mentioned if Brady played in 8 superbowls? (dunno about New Orleans, but he definitely beats the Bears in 2006). Same deal with Brady maybe getting better positioning a couple times, easier road to games, and maybe Brady is 7-10 or something in the big game.
They've been an entertaining matchup for the past 15 years or so for sure.
On the con side, either of these guys would have at least a couple more rings if the other guy never played football, right?
Maybe Manning IS the greatest of all time if Brady never got drafted. Would give him a bunch more AFC championships, and several more Superbowl appearances. Plus more regular season wins, so maybe higher seeding, more byes, etc.
Same for Brady. Does Montana even get mentioned if Brady played in 8 superbowls? (dunno about New Orleans, but he definitely beats the Bears in 2006). Same deal with Brady maybe getting better positioning a couple times, easier road to games, and maybe Brady is 7-10 or something in the big game.
They've been an entertaining matchup for the past 15 years or so for sure.
He won it. Or perhaps, better to say that his play, though not stellar, was enough to ensure that the defense's great work would not be undone.
Not at this point in his career, but his career isn't over, so maybe sometime down the road. With all of his other accomplishments in the league, with having now won multiple SB's, I don't see how you can not put Manning up in that special group among the elite NFL QB's.
I tell you, you're like a whipped dog, flinching when there is nothing to flinch at.And just to get in the expected Patriots dig: Brady has as many rings as the entire Manning family, including Archie.
I dunno. Trying to say who was the greatest QB (or whatever, for that matter) is like trying to identify the best glass of water you ever drank. There are too many variables involved. For QBs there is era in which they played, level of competition, how good their team was, quality of the playing surface, PEDs, the use of "cheating" to get an edge (and the list goes on). Variables for a glass of water could be how thirsty you were, quality of the water, cleanliness of the glass, etc.
Everybody can make a case for their No. 1, but it is valid or true only to the point of satisfying their own personal feelings. Sorry for rambling on, and this probably doesn't make too much sense.
Everybody can make a case for their No. 1, but it is valid or true only to the point of satisfying their own personal feelings. Sorry for rambling on, and this probably doesn't make too much sense.
I think its a little easier when you narrow the parameters. "Best QB of all time" is a useless and impossible to apply label. "Best 5 QB's of the 90's" is a lot easier.
So you have to narrow things down a bit. I think "Best 5 Super Bowl QB's" isn't an impossible list to make, especially if you don't require them to be listed in order of greatness, just all thrown into a bowl.
My List:
Montana
Brady
Manning, P.
Bradshaw
Warner
So you have to narrow things down a bit. I think "Best 5 Super Bowl QB's" isn't an impossible list to make, especially if you don't require them to be listed in order of greatness, just all thrown into a bowl.
My List:
Montana
Brady
Manning, P.
Bradshaw
Warner
I think that about wraps it up for this season. On to the off season.
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