New Picard series is a Thanos snap to Treklit.

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Chancellor M'rek, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. Dayton Ward

    Dayton Ward Word Pusher Rear Admiral

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    Yes, after Kevin and I asked Lawrence Schoen to help us with developing such a term when we were writing Summon the Thunder. I still haz the email! :D
     
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  2. David Weller

    David Weller Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I’ve watched Discovery and enjoyed it. Only one dud episode in the entire run, IMO.
     
  3. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They could just do new Voyager, and DS9 novels that are consistent with the new show. If the show is going to be telling us what became of the TNG characters, then the novels could be a good way to show us what has happened to the other shows' characters.
    Oh, I did not know that. I had assumed it was something whoever wrote the first book to deal with the TOS Klingons post Enterprise came up with on their own, and that it was unique to the novels.
    I have a feeling if the new show wipes out the Relaunches that is probably going include the Enteprise books too, there is just to much shared worldbuilding there.
    I don't know how well that would work, even though the stories are fairly standalone, they still all build off of each other, and it would be really hard to do some of the later stories without having that past there. If we get rid of Destiny for instance, then pretty much every story after that wouldn't really be able to happen.
     
  4. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Is it possible. Yeah. But I think it unlikely. With 2+ shows on the air I think they'll want to focus almost exclusively on tie in novels. I think the other spin offs will gradually disappear. Only the original series would continue.

    Hopefully the last Voyager novel gets released before everything gets blown up though. So far it's not cancelled but as busy as Beyer is I wouldn't be surprised if it gets dropped at some point. She has a role on Discovery last I remember, and she's helping create the nu-TNG show. There's only so much one person can do.
     
  5. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I guess it's been long enough since they were on the air they might not be getting the readers to be worth continuing the other series, but it is worth keeping in mind that they have continued to publish novels for all of the previous series each new series started. Even when both DS9 and Voyager were on the air they did still continued to print TNG and TOS book, and when Enteprise was on the air they still published those two and DS9 and Voyager books.
     
  6. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, but they sort of ran one after another. And then after Enterprise ended there was nothing on air until the Abrams movies started, but even then it was just 3 movies and the books couldn't reference them anyway. So the extra universe stuff was free to go in pretty much any direction (with some parameters but still). I think that's the main difference. And those series for a lot of people are way in the rearview mirror.

    The original series is an exception though. Those will go on forever
     
  7. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That means nothing.
     
  8. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    To be clear, it's not about egos or preconceptions, it's about math. Books are read in the thousands. TV shows are watched in the millions. It's whole different order of magnitude. Only about 2% of the viewing audience have read the books so it doesn't make sense for the shows to have to follow the books. 98% of the audience will never notice any discrepancies.

    Not an artistic choice, not a matter of pride or ego. Just cold, hard math.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  9. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, I agree there. They won't be beholden to any tie in fiction. The primary objective will be to make a good show. If the viewers love it then they succeeded, if not, well then they didn't. But I do find it hard to believe anything Patrick Stewart is in these days would be bad. I think he's got an eye for good potential by now.

    The only way I see them ever using the litverse as their background is if they felt it served the show they are creating. That the showrunners loved where the litverse have taken Picard up to the point it is at and want to build off that. I would think that's pretty unlikely. It would probably have to mean that what their vision of the show is, and where the litverse is now, matched up pretty well. That they liked that the Borg were gone, that Picard has a son, the idea of the Typhon Pact, and so much more.

    I think we'll probably have to see how it goes ultimately. There's also the slim possibility that the show doesn't contradict the litverse much just by pure happenstance and it can continue and still tie into the nu-TNG show. But honestly, there have been so many storylines in 15+ years of relaunch novels I find that highly unlikely.

    But I don't really see the showrunners as egotistical jerks who are licking their chops to destroy the litverse, assuming they are all even aware of it. I wouldn't be surprised even if they threw a nod to some storyline or character that appeared in a book, just as sort of an Easter egg. That's happened once or twice in Star Trek history.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Three words: The Emoji Movie.


    One work of imagination cannot destroy another. They're all equally unreal, so they can coexist. As I already pointed out, the Novelverse is just one of several mutually contradictory tie-in continuities that already exist. Its existence doesn't destroy the STO or IDW or ST Adventures continuities, nor do they destroy it. Of course, a new canonical 24th-century continuity that conflicted massively with the Novelverse would end it, but ending a series does not destroy it, because it's still there to read, just like the '80s Trek novels are still there to read and still enjoyed by many.

    So nobody tells a story to "destroy" a different version. They tell it because they have their own story to tell, and it's not a zero-sum game.
     
  11. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ok, no one's perfect. :ouch: My daughter liked it, not sure if that's a good thing or not though

    Oh, I know. In fact I hope to re-read some of my old 80's novels this summer for the first time in almost 3 decades. I'm looking forward actually to seeing how they viewed things back then with the limited canon they had. And the books will always be there. It'll just be sad to see them come to an end. Like saying goodbye to an old friend almost. I still remember how cool it was when DS9 started the relaunch wagon, and eventually spread to the other series as they concluded. It was like the series never really ended. But as I keep all my novels, someday, I'll re-read the relaunch novels and enjoy them all over again too.

    And litverse or no litverse, I look forward to watching the nu-TNG show---well when it eventually comes out on Blu-Ray ;)
     
  12. Jakks

    Jakks Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I like to think the angst and worry about the fate of the litverse continuity you see here is actually a testament from the fans/readers to all the current (and past) authors and editors of just how much your works have meant to a great many people. Nobody wants a good thing to end.

    I know for me personally, having read my way thru most of the 80's Pocket Trek books then laying off for a long time it was the discovery of not only the excellent writing...but the tighter overall interconnected plotlines and stories that brought me fully back into the Star Trek novels.

    It's been a hell of a ride. Thank you, to all of you who've made it possible.
     
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  13. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To be fair, the movie itself played it really fast & loose with how the Nexus worked. Kirk relived specific moments of his life, while Picard had an entire fantasy existence with a family he never had and where (IIRC) his nephew Rene was suddenly his son. It was impossible to exit, until suddenly Kirk & Picard were able to do so at will.

    Basically, the Nexus did whatever the writers wanted it to in any given scene.
    Dennis O'Neil. Just one L. :)
    They also incorporated the villain Lock-Up and BTAS' version of Mr. Freeze's backstory.
    I'd say that most modern comic book movies only try to stay broadly consistent with the comics, if for no other reason than to still surprise the people who are familiar with the original source material. For instance, the MCU version of the Scarlet Witch has slightly different powers than her comics counterpart, and was hugely affected by the death of her brother Quicksilver, who, the last time I looked, is a still-living Avenger of many years standing in the comics. Not to mention the whole variance of the mutant backstory, necessitated by the X-Men being licensed to a separate studio. But the big important things, like her being a misguided villain who becomes a hero and her romance with the Vision, are more or less the same. Or in another example, the Sam Raimi/Tobey Maguire version of Spider-Man didn't start fighting crime until after he graduated high school. He also never dated Betty Brant, even though she was his first girlfriend in the comics. And he didn't meet Gwen Stacy until long after he was dating Mary Jane Watson.

    For me, it's much more important that they try get retain the essence of the characters than the exact trivia of the characters.
     
  14. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If one is an intergalatic organisation serving a population in the trillions there might be plenty of posts for admiral. The number of people working for Starfleet should be able to fill Australia.
    RL Earth's population is over 7 billion, if you add up every nation's armed forces, air forces and naval forces how many Admirals/General etc are there?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Starfleet is only interstellar, not intergalactic. It encompasses only a tiny fraction of this galaxy, and even its farthest-flung explorations in DS9 and VGR are just on the other side of this galaxy.

    Besides, the point isn't about the total number, it's about the percentage of the whole. If there are 100 times as many admirals, there are also 100 times as many captains, and the ratio of admiral posts to captain posts is still going to be just as small. So the probability that any given captain -- let alone commander or lieutenant or ensign -- is going to get promoted to admiral someday is still quite low. It's not something every character is entitled to get; it would be quite rare.
     
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  16. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Also, not every character Wants to be an admiral! I mean, look at Picard, He's been a captain since Stargazer, so Almost 50 years in the hot seat.! And Kirk was wrong to accept promotion as well.
     
  17. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Based on US numbers, the "flag officers" are likely less than one percent of the entire cadre, with total numbers of active personnel between one-tenth and ten percent of total population (so for a conservative one trillion population, there are potentially one million to one-hundred million officers and enlisted and between a thousand and a million flag officers).
     
  18. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree with you. I don't have a problem with Riker being admiral. It made sense in the novels when it occurred, and it would even make sense in the nu-TNG show if they decided to go that route and he was a guest on the show at some point. Riker had ambition. He stayed 1st officer on the Enterprise for a long time, yes, but I don't think that changes his drive to move up the chain. He was just wise to realize not to take a promotion until he was ready and learned everything he could from Captain Picard. And he served a long time on the flagship of the Federation.

    But at the same time I would make him the only one of the crew, partly because of what you state, there's only so many slots. And some characters wouldn't really make sense. For instance, I think Geordi is happy doing what he's doing. And while at one time I might have envisioned Picard becoming an Admiral, I still remember Kirk warning him in Generations not to do it. And I get the sense Picard took that to heart. I think it would make sense that he decided to stay put. Sometimes taking a promotion is the wrong choice (as an aside, another reason I don't have a real problem with Dr Crusher staying on the ship in the novels--sometimes a promotion isn't going to make you happier; one should choose the life that makes them happiest).

    And as for Riker, if Frakes guest stars in an episode (which I sincerely hope we get to see that at some point), I imagine it will be because Picard needs some kind of help from his old friend, and an admiral would be in a very good position to help (not that a captain wouldn't, but Admirals have a lot more pull where it's needed). BUT, he would be the only one I'd realistically see. It made sense in the novels, and I think it would make sense on screens, even if the circumstances differ.
     
  19. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And come on, it's Riker. He'd make a phenomenal Admiral. If Starfleet can't see that then they've got a problem ;)
     
  20. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just read how difficult it is to be a flag officer in the US , assuming its the same everywhere watching Kirk in STB talk about applying for the post of Vice Admiral is even more ridiculous. Ok Star Trek is not about accuracy within the ranks but the suspension of disbelief in this regard for me was laughable. Might as well have a Star Trek Medical series where a precocious nursing assistant applies to be Head of surgery.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019