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New photos from Episode VII

Oh yes! That hippo thing is awesome!

As a thought, why is Abrams being so unusually open with this film? I'm not complaining, it's about time the guy gave up his idiotic mystery box obsession. But this is quite a dramatic departure from the guy who forced the Trek XI cast to wear trench coats to cover up their Starfleet uniforms while not filming, or the guy who reportedly blew a fuse when the first images leaked of Benedict Cumberbatch wearing a black t-shirt in STID. Did he actually learn his lesson after the negative backlash over the Khan "twist" or is this openness Disney's doing? Either way, it's a refreshing breath of fresh air as far as an Abrams production goes.
 
The Wormhole said:
As a thought, why is Abrams being so unusually open with this film? I'm not complaining, it's about time the guy gave up his idiotic mystery box obsession. But this is quite a dramatic departure from the guy who forced the Trek XI cast to wear trench coats to cover up their Starfleet uniforms while not filming, or the guy who reportedly blew a fuse when the first images leaked of Benedict Cumberbatch wearing a black t-shirt in STID. Did he actually learn his lesson after the negative backlash over the Khan "twist" or is this openness Disney's doing? Either way, it's a refreshing breath of fresh air as far as an Abrams production goes.
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I'm pretty sure it's a Disney thing, to a large degree. In this case, it's not even Abrams being open, though - these are leaked set photos by an extra (who I assume has been fired by now).
 
I think it's pretty much a Lucasfilm thing as well-even without Lucas. The Star Wars magazine showed a lot of BTS photos from TPM-ROTS on a monthly basis, and there were many videos from the Star Wars website.

Funny thing is the first TPM photos (apart from a look at a Trade Federation tank) were also of a Tatooine town, in that case Mos Espa. (Although the first 'leaked' photos were from the short desert battle between Qui-Gon and Maul).
 
They are very cool pictures. Perhaps someone could explain to me the debate of using CGI versus traditional methods - and why so many people want Wars to go back to models? Isn't CGI more stunning visually?
 
Personally, while CGI can indeed be more stunning, I find a lot more reality to physical models. I think a mixture of the two can be done well. And actually in Phantom Menace, Lucas did a lot of that. I think he even did into Clones and Sith but it wasn't as convincing. The problem is an over-reliance on it can become unrealistic. Look at the space battle scenes in TPM, particularly showing Artoo (starting at 6:35) just looks bad. On the other hand, take a look at the shot of Artoo in the X-Wing from ANH (starting at :043). You tell me what looks more convincing?

There's no problem with adding detail you can't get on set with CGI but there's a huge difference in performances between actors on a green screen set pretending you're scared of a paper "X" being held by a crew member that's supposed to be a giant green crab just isn't the same as giant tentacles coming out of the water in the trash compactor and pulling the main character under.
 
Campe98 said:
Personally, while CGI can indeed be more stunning, I find a lot more reality to physical models. I think a mixture of the two can be done well. And actually in Phantom Menace, Lucas did a lot of that. I think he even did into Clones and Sith but it wasn't as convincing. The problem is an over-reliance on it can become unrealistic. Look at the space battle scenes in TPM, particularly showing Artoo (starting at 6:35) just looks bad. On the other hand, take a look at the shot of Artoo in the X-Wing from ANH (starting at :043). You tell me what looks more convincing?

There's no problem with adding detail you can't get on set with CGI but there's a huge difference in performances between actors on a green screen set pretending you're scared of a paper "X" being held by a crew member that's supposed to be a giant green crab just isn't the same as giant tentacles coming out of the water in the trash compactor and pulling the main character under.
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Thanks for those two examples. ANH looks more, 'real,' - at least to me - despite the fact that the effect was created much earlier and without CGI. Regarding acting with CGI, Bob Hoskins in Who Framed Roger Rabbitt IMO did the best job ever of interacting with something that wasn't even there.
 
Should be noted though that a good chunk of TPM and even AOTC used real locations such as Tunisia and Italy (For Naboo), and had photos very much like these. However, Tatooine's 'beasts of burden'the Dewbacks (Big lizard things), Eopie (The infamous 'farting camel') Banthas and Ronto were pretty much all CG while this pig thing is a practical beast of burden (or whatever).

ROTS is probably the 'fakest' of the films and uses the most computer-animated stuff-possibly since the majority of the film takes place on Coruscant.


Kathleen Kennedy did state they'd try to use practical FX, but I seem to recall somebody saying that about Indiana Jones and The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull, and that seemed to use a lot of CG.
 
The only characters IMO in ANH that look stupid using standard makeup techniques are the Jawas. The two flashlight eyes look cheesy by today's standards. So if they revive them, I'm hoping they do a better job.

 
^They appeared in TPM and AOTC but pretty much looked the same.

Though the sand people costumes didn't look quite as realistic and scary as the ANH ones IMO. The original had more of a dirty, mummyish look while the ones seen in TPM and AOTC looked kind of fat-faced and cleaner looking.
 
AvBaur said:
The Wormhole said:
As a thought, why is Abrams being so unusually open with this film? I'm not complaining, it's about time the guy gave up his idiotic mystery box obsession. But this is quite a dramatic departure from the guy who forced the Trek XI cast to wear trench coats to cover up their Starfleet uniforms while not filming, or the guy who reportedly blew a fuse when the first images leaked of Benedict Cumberbatch wearing a black t-shirt in STID. Did he actually learn his lesson after the negative backlash over the Khan "twist" or is this openness Disney's doing? Either way, it's a refreshing breath of fresh air as far as an Abrams production goes.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure it's a Disney thing, to a large degree. In this case, it's not even Abrams being open, though - these are leaked set photos by an extra (who I assume has been fired by now).
Click to expand...

Well, even that picture of Abrams with the alien dude from a few weeks back is a lot more openness than he's shown with his Trek movies. And besides, these new pictures, even leaks, are better than the leaks we got from the Abrams Trek movies.
 
Isn't CGI more stunning visually?
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Yeah, I don't care what is "stunning". The stupid flying aircraft carriers at the end of the Winter Soldier looked stunning. But they didn't look (or, more importantly, feel) real at all.

The glory of the original trilogy is that even with stop motion, even with puppets, even with old models, there was something more rela about all of it, more gritty, and it all felt of piece.

These days, when they say a film has good special effects, people usually mean it had good CGI.

When such a compliment was given to the original trilogy, it was all about how every department, from set-builders, to sound, to enormous sets.. it was every department bringing every thing they could bring to bear on this film...
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Isn't CGI more stunning visually?
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Yeah, I don't care what is "stunning". The stupid flying aircraft carriers at the end of the Winter Soldier looked stunning. But they didn't look (or, more importantly, feel) real at all.
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IMO it doesn't always look more real. Case in point in Empire Strikes back, the Imperial Walkers looked like models and specifically the scene where Luke is able to sabotage and blow one up - the effect look fake.

Same scene, when Luke ties the other Walker and it trips and blows up - scene looked cheesy IMO.

Same technology - the mini-Walkers in episode 6 when the logs crush it and it blows up - didn't look real.

Sometimes, CGI works better.
 
Puppets, costumes, miniatures, make-up appliances, matte paintings and CGI are all tools. They each have their own unique advantages and disadvantages and they all do some things better than all the others. The trick to it looking "real" is how and when these tools are used.

As nostalgic as people get for the old practical effects, the fact is they had their limits. There are things that CG can do very well that NONE of the others techniques can pull off on their own.

To give an example: The establishing shots for Kamino. There's no other way to portray that environment in the way it was without CG. Specifically; for the city itself, water scales notoriously badly, so miniatures are out. The shot itself is a pan so a matte painting is out since they're largely static. The flying creatures have to interact with the water and seamlessly transition from swimming to flying so puppetry and stop-motion is out. Only CGI can take all these elements and combine them into the shot we saw in AotC.

Same applies to the creatures. While yes, there's a LOT that can be done (and done well) with make-up appliances, puppets and costumes....BUT there's a technical limitation to the kinds of creature designs they can pull off on their own. Indeed some of the very best creature design work I've ever seen has been a seamless and masterful combination of practical and CGI.

See: 'Hellboy 2' and 'Pan's Labyrinth'. GMT *really* knows how to do this stuff well.
 
DarthTom said:
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Isn't CGI more stunning visually?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't care what is "stunning". The stupid flying aircraft carriers at the end of the Winter Soldier looked stunning. But they didn't look (or, more importantly, feel) real at all.
Click to expand...

IMO it doesn't always look more real. Case in point in Empire Strikes back, the Imperial Walkers looked like models and specifically the scene where Luke is able to sabotage and blow one up - the effect look fake.

Same scene, when Luke ties the other Walker and it trips and blows up - scene looked cheesy IMO.

Same technology - the mini-Walkers in episode 6 when the logs crush it and it blows up - didn't look real.

Sometimes, CGI works better.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

The team did a fantastic job integrated two-legged walkers in a real forest.. and they used every trick in the book to do it.

And even if I grant you the fact that the walkers "look like models".. so what? The CG aircraft carriers looked CG. In fact there is so much CG used today that my eyes have forgotten what's tangible, what is supposed to be charming, what is supposed to be something that was made with care and ingenuity.

Of course, you know it's all artifice going on. But I think Empire is one of the best, most imaginative films in history. Ever.
 
Agreed. It's all clearly fake, but for my money it's a LOT more fun and cool to watch intricately detailed models in action than even the best CGI.

Particularly in a series like SW, which was supposed to be just a fun throwback to movie serials of the 40s to begin with.
 
The Wormhole said:
As a thought, why is Abrams being so unusually open with this film? I'm not complaining, it's about time the guy gave up his idiotic mystery box obsession. But this is quite a dramatic departure from the guy who forced the Trek XI cast to wear trench coats to cover up their Starfleet uniforms while not filming, or the guy who reportedly blew a fuse when the first images leaked of Benedict Cumberbatch wearing a black t-shirt in STID. Did he actually learn his lesson after the negative backlash over the Khan "twist" or is this openness Disney's doing? Either way, it's a refreshing breath of fresh air as far as an Abrams production goes.
Click to expand...
I'm hoping it's Disney saying "It's okay to give them tidbits." I too am tired of Abrams' mystery obsession, and especially since this doesn't come out for another 18 months I appreciate that we're getting something. Once the production moves indoors to a soundstage "leaks" will dry up. Hopefully then we'll get official pics.
 
I'm pretty sure if JJ wanted these officially released they wouldn't have TMZ stamped all over them.
 
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