networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking system

[Temis the Vorta]

Is this a healthy development or just the fox (and ABC, NBC etc) guarding the henhouse?

TV Week

In what looks like a major challenge to the stanglehold Nielsen Media Research has on the currency controlling the spending of billions of dollars on TV, some of the nation's biggest advertisers, media agencies and networks--broadcast and cable --have formed a consortium to get better measurement of TV and digital video viewing

TV By The Numbers.

The news about some big media television networks and advertisers putting together a consortium to challenge the Nielsen ratings system raises a lot of questions.

What’s really behind this? Does it really have much to do with measurement? Or is it more about a business landscape that’s changing at an ever accelerating pace?

The TV networks believe more people are watching their shows than wind up getting counted by the current Nielsen measurements because they only capture television viewing and not online viewing.

The advertisers want as much data as possible to make their ad buys, but also don’t want to pay for things like DVR viewing since most people fast-forward through most of the ads most of the time.

...

Nielsen is not perfect or blameless here. But its biggest sin is probably that it’s too good of a sales organization. Good sales organizations don’t tell their biggest customers (the networks), “Look, you don’t really have a measurement issue, you have an issue with a changing business landscape. That’s really not our deal. We’ll measure whatever you want if you’re willing to pay for it, but if advertisers don’t want to pay for DVR viewers, that’s your problem, not ours.”

...

Nielsen tried to broker an uneasy truce between networks and advertisers with the C3 ratings. But it looks like that didn’t work out for the networks because too many people fast forward too much of the time. Those aren’t ad dollars you can recover through better measurement.

Deadline Hollywood Daily

C'mon, these are the kind of con men who, if you ask them what time it is, you still have to check your watch. And at the same time make sure they're not pickpocketing your wallet. They've always been adept at manipulating numbers. (Ain't that right, all you net profit participants?) And don't even get me started on the fact this is yet another example of these supposed competitors forming a cartel.

According to the Financial Times, the Big Media networks have roped in top advertisers like Procter & Gamble and AT&T and Unilever into their scheme. "The involvement of such big names highlights how urgently advertisers feel the need for better information to justify ads that run across multiple media platforms," the FT writes, noting that media agencies GroupM, owned by WPP, and Starcom MediaVest are also joining. "People briefed on the plans expected the consortium to award contracts for measuring set-top box data and cross-platform viewers across TV and digital sources as early as the 4th quarter of this year."

 

[Starbreaker]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

 

[miraclefan]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

'Bought TIME!

 

[Yoda]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

I think people who are expecting to see all the Sci-fi ratings skyrocket because us dorks are undercounted are going to be disappointed

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

I think people who are expecting to see all the Sci-fi ratings skyrocket because us dorks are undercounted are going to be disappointed

I don't necessarily expect that, but I am definitely interested to see how this changes things.

(Come ooooooooon, Chuck! )

 

[Data Holmes]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

Good.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

I think people who are expecting to see all the Sci-fi ratings skyrocket because us dorks are undercounted are going to be disappointed

I don't necessarily expect that, but I am definitely interested to see how this changes things.

(Come ooooooooon, Chuck! )

How it changes things is unpredictable. Chuck's ratings may have been over-reported all this time. Nobody knows a) if Nielsens are wrong and b) if so, what direction they have been wrong in. The advertisers want a rationale for decreasing the amount of money they pay for shows; it's in their self-interest to have Chuck's ratings be as low as possible. Ditto for all shows.

NYT chimes in.

The representatives said there was a chance the consortium might not move forward for reasons that include the divergent interests of the companies involved as well as potential antitrust issues, with so many competitors coming together for the initiative.

The advertisers and networks have diametrically opposed interests; how are they going to be able to reconcile this without a third party like Nielsens to serve as arbiter?

For many years, TV networks have frequently disputed the accuracy of Nielsen data, in areas like viewership among young men. Advertisers have cast doubt on Nielsen figures, too, wondering if they are getting value for all the money they spend to buy commercials — an estimated $70 billion each year.

Translation: networks thinks Nielsens are too low; advertisers think they're too high.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

I don't see why advertisers would trust these new numbers. Ratings only matter for advertisement space and it's quite likely that decline in ratings is due to people looking at it at other times than when it aired and avoiding commercials.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

One thing I find odd, well maybe not, maybe just a difference in US/UK culture, but studies are showing despite everything else everyone is doing on average more TV is watched per week and despite the rise of the DVR/PVR/DTR, whatever you call them, the amount of ads seen is slowly creeping up in the UK.

 

[wamdue]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

The representatives said there was a chance the consortium might not move forward for reasons that include the divergent interests of the companies involved as well as potential antitrust issues, with so many competitors coming together for the initiative.

The advertisers and networks have diametrically opposed interests; how are they going to be able to reconcile this without a third party like Nielsens to serve as arbiter?

you know as much as I agree that letting the networks count the viewers is a bad idea, having both the networks on the advertisers taking part should keep things honest, but yeah its hard to see how the two sides will agree on things.

none the less I find the idea that both networks & advertisers involved interesting.

 

[barnaclelapse]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

It might be interesting. It would certainly, in theory, give them one less thing to complain about.

 

[TedShatner10]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

A sensible course of action, the Nielsen Ratings system seemed broken anyhow.

 

[Christopher]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

The advertisers want as much data as possible to make their ad buys, but also don’t want to pay for things like DVR viewing since most people fast-forward through most of the ads most of the time.

People are always going to fast-forward through ads given the chance. So obviously what the advertisers need to do is run their ads in slow motion!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

I don't see why advertisers would trust these new numbers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole enterprise falls apart because of that. Let's say the numbers come back favoring the networks compared with the Nielsens. Who's gonna buy that? And if the numbers are worse than the Nielsens, won't the networks suddenly be in loooove with the Nielsens and just ditch their own system? Why would those numbers even see the light of day?

One thing I find odd, well maybe not, maybe just a difference in US/UK culture, but studies are showing despite everything else everyone is doing on average more TV is watched per week and despite the rise of the DVR/PVR/DTR, whatever you call them, the amount of ads seen is slowly creeping up in the UK.

You mean increased DVR usage in the UK is corresponding with an increase in ad viewing?

I would doubt that's the case in America. Of course, before DVRs, there was never any sure way to track how many ads were being seen vs people going to the kitchen/bathroom during the ads. 40% of viewers with DVRs watch ads, but for all we know, that number is higher than the number of actually have been watching ads all along and being counted as 100%.

having both the networks on the advertisers taking part should keep things honest,

Or keep things extra dishonest. In situations like that, the liars with the most power win, and that's the advertisers.

People are always going to fast-forward through ads given the chance. So obviously what the advertisers need to do is run their ads in slow motion!

They'll just continue to do what they've started: running ads in the shows, either those annoying things at the bottom of the screen, or product placement that continues to get more and more obtrusive. I'd also expect more shows to be developed that are, effectively, infomercials, such as Extreme Home Makeover which is an infomercial for Craftsmen, Sears etc. I guess getting a new free home is worth it, even if you have to blubber on nationwide TV how much you love the good people at CVS Pharmacy for giving you the wheelchair your cheapass health insurance wouldn't cough up.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

Fuck Nielsen. Anything that lessens the credibility of their BS numbers is very likely a good thing.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

One thing I find odd, well maybe not, maybe just a difference in US/UK culture, but studies are showing despite everything else everyone is doing on average more TV is watched per week and despite the rise of the DVR/PVR/DTR, whatever you call them, the amount of ads seen is slowly creeping up in the UK.

You mean increased DVR usage in the UK is corresponding with an increase in ad viewing?

I would doubt that's the case in America. Of course, before DVRs, there was never any sure way to track how many ads were being seen vs people going to the kitchen/bathroom during the ads. 40% of viewers with DVRs watch ads, but for all we know, that number is higher than the number of actually have been watching ads all along and being counted as 100%.

From Digital Spy
UK consumers are now watching a record amount of programming and advertising on commercial TV, new research has revealed.
According to a report by TV marketing firm Thinkbox using viewing figures from the Broadcasters' Audience Research Board (BARB), people watched on average 16.7 hours of commercial TV per week in the first half of 2009, up by 9.9 minutes on figures for the same time last year.
This also represented an increase of 42 minutes on the weekly average for commercial TV viewing recorded from January to June over the past five years.
The increase helped commercial TV to account for 63.7% of all broadcast TV viewing in the first half of this year, up by 3.2% on the past five years, with the BBC taking up the remaining portion.
BARB figures do not take into account online TV viewing, including usage of on-demand services such as BBC iPlayer, 4oD and Sky Player. The report, however, said that online TV services were further "magnetising" viewers to the living room. A separate study by Thinkbox and Work Research previously found that 78% of people were regularly using online TV to catch up with missed broadcast programming.
Thinkbox chief executive Tess Alps said: "In January we said the record broadcast viewing levels set last year couldn't continue, but - astonishingly - they have. New TV technologies - like digital television recorders and high definition TVs - and the variety of great content available are helping to make TV an even better experience.

I don't get it either, obviously, as you suggest, there's no way to tell if people are actually watching those ads, or making a drink etc.

BARB are the UK equivalent of the Neilsens by the way, but because of the BBC they seem to have got to collecting data +7 and PVR a long time ago or at least relatively.

 

[Ryan]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

You know, geeks might hate the Nielsens because their favorite programs never do good in them and get canceled and the networks might hate them because their viewership keeps eroding or being shifted to less profitable mediums, but that doesn't mean they're actually wrong. I haven't seen anyone show any kind systematic error in the ratings. They're just disliked based on the results.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

I haven't seen anyone show any kind systematic error in the ratings.

That's because it's currently impossible to do so. You'd need three Nielsens type systems, because even with this new one, what would it mean if the figures diverge? Are the networks wrong or is Nielsens wrong? You'd need a third system to serve as tie-breaker, and that's assuming it matches up well with one or the other of the two.

 

[Yoda]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

Fuck Nielsen. Anything that lessens the credibility of their BS numbers is very likely a good thing.

You live in fucking Vienna. How would you possibly have any clue how accurate the Nielsens are? There's certainly nothing grossly wrong with the basic statistical theory behind how they sample and get their numbers, so what exactly is the problem? They also seem committed to refining their methodology to be as accurate as possible.

If you interact with a decently wide cross section of Americans it becomes pretty damned obvious that the numbers the Nielsons spit out are in general accurate. If you interact with a bunch of male sci-fi geeks who make a yearly pilgrimage to Comic Con then you would think Firefly was the most watched television show in history.

If anything the new system is far more suspect because it's created by people who would benefit by colluding to raise the viewership numbers across the board.

Why can't people accept that sci-fi geeks (myself included) represent a relatively minor niche in modern television?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: networks challenge the Nielsens with their own ratings tracking sy

Why can't people accept that sci-fi geeks (myself included) represent a relatively minor niche in modern television?

Because it means the shows they like are most likely DOA the minute they debut; very inconvenient.

However, this article in Variety says that the networks won't actually have a competing system, since they don't plan to replicate the infrastructure that Nielsens has put into place (and that is the barrier to competitors; even if folks find Nielsens' reach inadequate, it is downright daunting to those who would have to replicate it, much less surpass it, and even if networks and advertisers are annoyed at the inaccuracy of the figures, it's doubtful that they annoyed enough to spend the huge amounts of money required to fix the situation).

The initiative has been viewed as a challenger to Nielsen, but insiders close to the situation stress there is no practical way for the partners to develop the massive infrastructure needed to replicate the data that Nielsen delivers through its vast networks of data collection sources.

Nielsen may well be one of the firms that submit a bid for research initiatives sought by the coalition, insiders noted. At the same time, the initiative comes on the heels of frustration at the major congloms over the slowness with which Nielsen is developing technology that allows for a 360-degree view of audience interests in the fast-expanding media landscape. News Corp. execs have been particularly vocal in recent months on their frustration with Nielsen’s services.

I think this is more about counting new media accurately than reforming the way TV eyeballs are counted:

The goal is to develop systems that can help the majors measure the popularity of programs and franchises across multiple platforms -- e.g., allowing the Walt Disney Co. to better understand the size and scope of the “Lost” aud on TV, DVRs, vidgames, Web streaming, social networks, mobile and other online platforms.