Netflixification of DS9

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Timelord Victorious, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

    Feb 27, 2006
    Germany, Earth, the Solar System
    What I mean by this thread title:

    I compiled a list of DS9 episodes that might make it into a netflix type season for teh benefit of my girlfriend who steal try to convice to watch it with me.
    She loves Discovery a lot but is put off by older style shows (production values and special effects).
    I think, once she gets into it she would really like it.
    With Discovery now connecting to some of DS9's lore this might be a good opportunity to try again with her after the season is over.
    As a bonus I would try to throw in episodes that relate to her social studies of gender & diversity.
    And of course I need to keep in mind, not to lose the essence of DS9 itself with it's own lore and worldbuilding.
    Overall all seasons should be trimmed down to 10-14 episodes, Netflix Style to keep her attention better.
    Because it is really hard to lose episodes I would treat 2/3-parters as a ingle long episode.
    It might be necessary to lose a few good character episodes along the way. Maybe those can be revisited at a later date.

    I compiled it for the first 3 seasons so far. I figure, if she isn't hooked by then, no matter the quality of later episodes she will never like it.

    Prologue: The Emissary ( maybe thehardest episode to get through because of slow pace, wooden acting, rough edges)

    Past Prologue
    A Man Alone
    The Nagus
    Battle lines
    The Forsaken
    in the Hands of the Prophets
    this season eems to be the easiest to trim, I don't think anything essential is missing here.

    The Circle Trilogy
    Rules ofAquisition
    Necessary Evil
    Sanctuary (socially very relevant episode)
    The Alternate
    Playing God
    Blood Oath
    The Maquis 1+2
    The Wire
    The Collaborator
    the Jem´Hadar
    Already ditching episodes is a lot harder. I could probably streamline it further, but feel that would be starting to water down teh show too much)

    the Search 1+2
    Second Skin
    The Abandoned
    Past Tense 1+2
    Life Support
    Heart of Stone
    Through the Looking Glass
    Improbable Cause/ Die is Cast
    Family Business
    The Adversary
    Even with two parters as single episodes, this season seems extremely hard to me to trim down to a netflix model. Which one or two episodes could we lose here?
    Reyman likes this.
  2. Reyman

    Reyman Commander Red Shirt

    Oct 23, 2017
    I had a similar idea to this a while back, but the task of trimming it down was too much for me.

    Hopefully she gets on board with it.
  3. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 28, 2009
    Orbiting Urectum
    Not being able to get into and love DS9 would be reason enough to dump her :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
  4. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

    Feb 27, 2006
    Germany, Earth, the Solar System
    It's not so much the concept of DS), as I already said it should be in her alley as a Discovery Fan.
    It's just that 20 year old production values break er immersion to a very large degree.
    So, i don't want the seasons to drag along for her too much and just give her the best and most essential parts
  5. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Apr 28, 2007
    Outer Graceland
    She needs to be desensitized to old production values! You miss so much if the surface gets in the way. Just reading Dickens last night, and man, the language use, the poetry of his prose . . . great stuff! Far different from a novel today, but terrific.

    As a child of the 70s, we were deluged with old movies ('30s-'50s) on many TV channels, so it wasn't as big a deal. In school (again, '70s), we routinely saw movies saying one day we'd even land on the moon! So pity the poor youngsters of today raised in the eternal present, not growing up with the Three Stooges every afternoon.
    DS9forever and Bry_Sinclair like this.
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 19, 2013
    Bad Thoughts
    For season 2, you should cut out Sanctuary. The former roundly makes people unhappy, and it isn't worth keeping for the one or two lines about the Dominion.

    On the other hand, you should include Paradise. It is a pretty big leap forward in terms of moving Sisko to what will be seen as the more mature characterization in later seasons. It also has one of the most baddass moments in Trek.
    garakvsneelix likes this.
  7. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 19, 2013
    Bad Thoughts
    Suggestions about season 3: you might consider removing Second Skin.It just does not contribute enough to the overall narrative to keep.It's also rather unsatisfying from the perspective of production values.

    Also, you could put parentheses around Past Tense: decide when it comes up whether or not it would be good to watch. Ask your girlfriend if she wants to watch an episode that is very socially relevant, but that is less important for the overall story (as a Netflix style look at the series).

    BTW, do you want to know how I got my girlfriend to watch Star Trek? I married her, had a kid, starting watching Trek with him to the point that he wants to watch it every day. Essentially, my girlfriend (now my wife) is always outvoted on what to watch!
    kkt likes this.
  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 28, 2009
    Orbiting Urectum
    I'd say start at "Emissary" and go through it all, otherwise you'll miss out of great character building and setting the scene for the larger plot elements (who would've thought the Dominion would be first mentioned in a lightsome "Ferengi" episode).

    If you binge it properly you can get through all seven seasons in a couple of weeks.
    DS9forever likes this.
  9. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

    Aug 3, 2014
    I'm in sort of the reverse situation from your GF. I love DS9 and I've watched Discovery season 1 and part of season 2. Some things about Disco I really like, but the pacing seems way too fast. Like they have interesting plots but they're trying to advance plots A, B, C, D, and E, all in one episode, so they can only devote three minutes to each of them and don't have any time for characters to just chat. If they just gave plots A, B, and C 15 minutes each, they'd have a much better show! Also the camera constantly moving makes me feel like Ezri in a runabout early in season 7. I know both of those are just 21st century cinematic convention, but that doesn't mean I have to like them.
    Bad Thoughts likes this.
  10. Caretaker

    Caretaker Commodore Premium Member

    Oct 5, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD, USA
    "Vortex" offers nothing - I would remove that one. Maybe if you're a sadist throw in "Move Along Home".

    I'd remove "Cardassians" and maybe "Playing God".

    I would also get rid of "Visionary" (while I like the episode, it adds nothing to the long term arc) and the only thing of import in "Life Support" is the treaty.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
  11. Holly-deck One

    Holly-deck One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 2, 2017
    Farscape One
    In a funny way, I credit Heroes & Icons for getting my wife into STAR TREK.

    I would watch episodes while she was doing things, and over time, she got to see snippets and see how much I thoroughly enjoyed every episode.

    After a time, we watched all of DS9. (Except for a couple season 1 and 2 episodes because I didn't want drive her off the DS9 train.) And now, we finished seasons 1 and 2 and just started season 3 of TNG. I doubt I can get her to watch any of the other shows, except PICARD because she watched it with me. And I am fully ready to declare victory because when we first met, she was not really into any scifi, and especially derided STAR TREK.

    We've been together 11 years, and I have made her a DS9 fan, a TNG fan, she calls BSG the best drama series (even over LOST, which she thought before was the greatest), has watched multiple B5 episodes with me and loved them, a SUPERNATURAL fan (though to be fair, that's more a horror series, which like me is also a massive horror fan), and a few other episodes of shows here and there. I call this 'winning'.

    But to make my point, try having it in the background first, and she'll have it unconsciously in her head for a while. Until she has to scratch that itch. Then you've locked her in.

    As far as season lengths, why not simply call DS9 14 seasons and split each season down the middle and watch that way? She'll get the full measure, and the seasons are almost designed like that anyway with the big two-parters in the middle... particularly season 7 with the final 10 episodes as a single chapter.
  12. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

    Feb 27, 2006
    Germany, Earth, the Solar System
    Yeah, I've been thinking about the final season already.
    The last 10 episodes have to be watched as one thing, obviously.
    So "splitting" S7 anyway is the way t go. long road until then, though.
  13. Holly-deck One

    Holly-deck One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 2, 2017
    Farscape One
    The others can be done, too. Season 3-7 are easy due to the two-part middles and the final arc. It will be slightly off, since season 3 and 4 the two-parters are episodes 11 and 12, so the back half would be 14 episodes. But I think that still works, especially since when originally aired, the first 10 would air with no break, then a couple weeks break, then the two-parter, a break, then 5 episodes, a break, then more episodes and so on.

    Season 5... "FOR THE UNIFORM" is episode 13, which actually works because the next two-parter brings back the Dominion threat in a big way. So that two-parter acts as the beginning of the next 'season'.

    Season 6 has leeway in that you can almost split it in three. The Dominion arc and "YOU ARE CORDIALLY INVITED" as part 1, "RESURRECTION" to "CHANGE OF HEART" as part 2, and part 3 is the rest of the season. Or split it and have part 1 end with "FAR BEYOND THE STARS", with part 2 being the rest.

    1 and 2 can be tricky because they don't have that middle two-parter, but I think going from "EMISSARY" to "MOVE ALONG HOME" works, then you can call 'season 2' as "THE NAGUS" to "IN THE HANDS OF THE PROPHETS".

    'Season 3' can be "THE HOMECOMING" to either "ARMAGEDDON GAME" or "WHISPERS", depending on whether you want to end or begin your 'season' with "WHISPERS" because it's such a great mystery that still holds up after multiple viewings. I'd personally end with "ARMAGEDDON GAME" because it's got action and a great relationship building with O'Brien and Bashir... plus it's the 13th episode anyway, so direct split of the season. Same as how I split season 1.

    I would hate to see a show like DS9 trimmed because a LOT of character building and arcs happen everywhere and are peppered into every episode. TNG actually works better as a Netflixification show than DS9 in this regard. In a lot of ways, so does VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE seasons 1 and 2.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
    Desert Kris likes this.
  14. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

    Dec 19, 2011
    Quite frankly I prefer the older production values of DS9, TNG & Voyager. Discovery and Picard are too focused on stretching one story over 13 episodes, and I actually find there are a lot of episodes, especially in the first 6-7 episodes where they stall on a plot point that is boring and I lose interest in the series and then the rest of the season I just don’t care about and I’m primarily watching it to just finish the stupid thing.

    But DS9 I would say start at “Emissary” (and even as a prequel to “Emissary” run TNG’s “Best of Both World’s” and “The Wounded” for the series), and watch every episode through to “What You Leave Behind”. The later seasons( 4 onwards) really get into sweeping season arcs and can’t be shrunk. I’m reminded of the 90’s Babylon 5 and how hard it is to compile a “Best of” collection for that series, because the stories are so interconnected, that even the most obscure episode that doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the overall story, does have a place, and viewing it on its own leaves you wondering what came before and after. And you can see in its sequel series Crusade how a larger story uses a lot of plot points to where you don’t really get a sense of what Crusade would be about.

    That’s DS9. The series starts as an anthology, but then those stories tie in later.
    Bry_Sinclair likes this.
  15. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 28, 2009
    Orbiting Urectum
    I'd add "Ensign Ro" and "Chain of Command" to the prequel viewing.
    Holly-deck One and Bad Thoughts like this.
  16. AntonyF

    AntonyF Official Tahmoh Taster Rear Admiral

    Nov 9, 2000
    London, UK
    I was planning an abridged viewing of DS9 for some friends, and started on a spreadsheet... so this resonates with me.

    My thoughts compared to your list:

    Season 1
    Add Babel - it's a fun episode, with a lot of early cast chemistry. DS9 wins people over with the cast.
    Drop Man Alone - meh

    Season 2
    Add Melora, maybe? It's not a great episode. But if your GF is into Discovery, the wheelchair story will resonate more with modern viewers. This was when Trek could do a compelling story without being so 'woke'. Heavens forbid we tell a story with some subtlety! The love story was not compelling... her 'this or that' life choice was.
    Whispers - thank you for including this. This was the breakthrough episode for me. The one where I went from being a pro-TNG anti-DS9 zealot to a full-blown DS9 fan. One episode changed it all.

    Season 3
    Add Civil Defense perhaps - dunno why. I just love this episode. It's fun.
    Add Prophet Motive *if* she's resonated with earlier Nagus/Ferengi fun.
    Drop Shakaar - just ... no...

    TBH season 3 is largely academic, if she hasn't found much value in S1/S2 i't'll be hard to get her beyond that.

    I think your list is on the whole good. You get the main plot points, but without being so mechanical that you lose any of the flavour. It's that 'cartilage' as I call it in the episodes that may not be brilliant in themselves but add to the cast and ultimately what makes DS9.

    So yeah add Babel. :) "You. Money. Owe. ME!"
    Tosk and Timelord Victorious like this.
  17. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

    Jan 7, 2013
    I made a deal with my wife, back when were just 1 or 2 years together. I would watch the Sisi trilogy with her, and she would watch the 6 Star Wars movies with me :). It was a good trade:). She even went to the sequel trilogy, and I skipped TROS