Needs of the many

[commodore64]

Sadistro brought up something that is Trek gold, a saying from Spock in TWoK: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

What are your favorite moments that showcase the needs of the many are more important than the needs of the few or the one?

Since this is my thread and apparently I'm predictable, I'll go first: Twilight is my favorite show that displays this. It showcases how beautiful and painful sacrifice can be. Archer in an impulsive act saves T'Pol. T'Pol realizes that by saving her, he's doomed himself and makes a difficult decision to give up her post to help him. Trip is put in charge and makes a difficult decision to give up his life to protect what's left of the human race. Reed seems like he could've been promoted to captain long ago, but instead wanted to help Trip. Etc. I think this show displays the best of each characer and humanity.

What's your favorite "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one" episode?

 

[Mach5]

^ That, and probably Malcolm's readiness to sacrifice his life to save Enterprise in "Minefield."

And then of course there's Sim, who never had a real choice though, but even if he did, he would have probably done the right thing.

And let's not forget Koss, who had the strength to rise above his selfish feelings and false sense of family honor.

 

[JiNX-01]

I disagree that Sim had no choice. He could have taken the sh'pod and run. But he stayed because he didn't want any more "Elizabeths" to die.
Archer takes on suicide mission alone in Azati Prime.
Archer fights Shran to preserve the coalition in United.
Major Hayes gives his man cover so he can get Hoshi off the Xindi weapon in Countdown and loses the fight with the Reptilians.
Lorian and crew give Enterprise cover as it enters the corridor so Archer can make his meeting with Degra to save Earth.
Jhamel's brother Gareb sacrifices his life to stop the Romulans' rampage.

 

[trj]

me sacrificing i.q points watching anis

 

[commodore64]

Agreed. Sim didn't have to forfeit his life and his sacrifice was enormous, especially since he didn't really know these people (and yet knew them). I really wish they'd allowed Sim to live. I think it would be an interesting plot line for later, like maybe an alien race is able to revive him.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

me sacrificing i.q points watching anis

This is your favorite moment...?



For me, Sim choosing to give his life to save Trip, for the sake of "their" sister, is a powerful and moving moment for me.

Another one is in "Observer Effect," when Archer takes off his gloves in sickbay, exposing himself to the silicon virus, to keep Phlox safe so he can keep searching for a cure.

And, of course, "E2"-- Lorian and his ship staying behind to fight the Kovaalans, and probably giving their all so Enterprise will make it through the subspace corridor safely, and have their chance to save the world.

Archer's suicide mission in "Azati Prime" is a good example, too. I remember when he gathered his people on the bridge and spoke to them...it was simple, but heartfelt, and very moving, reminding them to get back to the business of exploring when the war was over. Even as he faced death, Archer was still an explorer at heart.

I also liked the talk between Archer and T'Pol in "United" before he squared off against Shran. (There's something about these ultimate-sacrifice situations that makes for really wonderful scenes beforehand. ) He was so matter-of-fact about what he needed to do and why, despite T'Pol's logical counter-arguments. And meanwhile, Hoshi and Travis were busily searching for a loophole... Great stuff.

 

[BillJ]

I kept waiting for Archer to fall on a hand grenade to save us all from yet another lack-luster performance. It just wasn't meant to be.

 

[Mach5]

Agreed. Sim didn't have to forfeit his life and his sacrifice was enormous, especially since he didn't really know these people (and yet knew them). I really wish they'd allowed Sim to live. I think it would be an interesting plot line for later, like maybe an alien race is able to revive him.

I think it would have been awesome to have him show up in season five or later, something like Lyndsay Ballard in Voyager. If handled right, it wouldn't have had to be a rehash of "Ashes to Ashes."

And then, a love triangle story - Sim has been obsessing over T'pol all those years, she still has residual (but strong) feelings for him and Trip doesn't like this at all (any resemblance to TNG: "Second Chances" strictly coincidental ).

I kept waiting for Archer to fall on a hand grenade to save us all from yet another lack-luster performance. It just wasn't meant to be.

Spoken like a true ENTERPRISE fan

 

[Lady Conqueror]

Twilight is my favorite show that displays this. It showcases how beautiful and painful sacrifice can be. Archer in an impulsive act saves T'Pol. T'Pol realizes that by saving her, he's doomed himself and makes a difficult decision to give up her post to help him.

Seems to me like T'Pol's decision in Twilight is really the other way round - the needs of Archer (the one) outweigh the needs of the many (the rest of the remnants of humanity who she could be helping more by Captaining Enterprise or another ship against further Xindi attack) in T'Pol's mind.

 

[commodore64]

Twilight is my favorite show that displays this. It showcases how beautiful and painful sacrifice can be. Archer in an impulsive act saves T'Pol. T'Pol realizes that by saving her, he's doomed himself and makes a difficult decision to give up her post to help him.

Seems to me like T'Pol's decision in Twilight is really the other way round - the needs of Archer (the one) outweigh the needs of the many (the rest of the remnants of humanity who she could be helping more by Captaining Enterprise or another ship against further Xindi attack) in T'Pol's mind.

I guess that's true. T'Pol and Archer's decision were the needs of the one. I think though, it proves the needs of the one (Archer) save the needs of the many.

BillJ, are you related to trj?

 

[trj]

Twilight is my favorite show that displays this. It showcases how beautiful and painful sacrifice can be. Archer in an impulsive act saves T'Pol. T'Pol realizes that by saving her, he's doomed himself and makes a difficult decision to give up her post to help him.

Seems to me like T'Pol's decision in Twilight is really the other way round - the needs of Archer (the one) outweigh the needs of the many (the rest of the remnants of humanity who she could be helping more by Captaining Enterprise or another ship against further Xindi attack) in T'Pol's mind.

I guess that's true. T'Pol and Archer's decision were the needs of the one. I think though, it proves the needs of the one (Archer) save the needs of the many.

BillJ, are you related to trj?

ahh,don't think so.whats your point exactly?

 

[Alyssa]

My favorite example of this is in Countdown ( I think ) when Hoshi is captured by the Xindi, tries to escape, see's that she can't and tries to jump off the balcony and kill herself.

Her doing that to prevent the Xindi from getting the code needed to destroy earth ( about which she realised she would have no choice. ) was made even more profound for me due to the fact that she didn't have time to think it through, make decisions about it or make peace with her demise, she just saw what she had to do and was willing to do it.

It always struck me as the most realistic portrayal of self-sacrafice that I've ever seen. And it was also so subtle, over in seconds. Brilliant.

 

[frenchman]

good point, alyssa, and in the next episode, we see that she feels guilty to not be dead.

 

[JiNX-01]

I just thought of another example: Archer's decision to refuse asylum to the cogenitor. The needs of the Vissians to reproduce outweighed Charles' right to self-determination. Granted, it's not exactly a noble example, but it's an example.

 

[pookha]

Twilight is my favorite show that displays this. It showcases how beautiful and painful sacrifice can be. Archer in an impulsive act saves T'Pol. T'Pol realizes that by saving her, he's doomed himself and makes a difficult decision to give up her post to help him.

Seems to me like T'Pol's decision in Twilight is really the other way round - the needs of Archer (the one) outweigh the needs of the many (the rest of the remnants of humanity who she could be helping more by Captaining Enterprise or another ship against further Xindi attack) in T'Pol's mind.

i dont know.
really enterprise is mostly doing guard duty.
tpol is a scientist.
for all we know she thought she could better serve everyone by her decision to take care of archer.
we know he spends a certain amount of time sleeping in between episodes of being awake.
and even after he is awake he isnt an invalid.
tpol even admits most of the time she dosnt spend as much time telling him all she does during the story.
so she would have time to be acting as a research colony for the people.
it even looks like she has a mini science station .

by her decision..

there will will be someone taking over the responsibility of telling archer what has happened who has the ability to deal with the task.

she keeps trip from taking off looking for another planet. a possibly dangerous mission.
she can be on the planet with the other people. where she can be most direct help to them.

I just thought of another example: Archer's decision to refuse asylum to the cogenitor. The needs of the Vissians to reproduce outweighed Charles' right to self-determination. Granted, it's not exactly a noble example, but it's an example.

considering archer was willing to let charles stay as that scene in the dining room opens and then it skips to his going to charles they have to leave.. one wonders just what he was told.

though one of my favs with archer is in shockwave where he leaves the ship.

 

[BillJ]

Agreed. Sim didn't have to forfeit his life and his sacrifice was enormous, especially since he didn't really know these people (and yet knew them). I really wish they'd allowed Sim to live. I think it would be an interesting plot line for later, like maybe an alien race is able to revive him.

I think it would have been awesome to have him show up in season five or later, something like Lyndsay Ballard in Voyager. If handled right, it wouldn't have had to be a rehash of "Ashes to Ashes."

And then, a love triangle story - Sim has been obsessing over T'pol all those years, she still has residual (but strong) feelings for him and Trip doesn't like this at all (any resemblance to TNG: "Second Chances" strictly coincidental ).

I kept waiting for Archer to fall on a hand grenade to save us all from yet another lack-luster performance. It just wasn't meant to be.

Spoken like a true ENTERPRISE fan

Hey, I've earned the right to call it how I see it. I bought all four rediculously over-priced DVD sets.

 

[Keith1701]

Agreed. Sim didn't have to forfeit his life and his sacrifice was enormous, especially since he didn't really know these people (and yet knew them). I really wish they'd allowed Sim to live. I think it would be an interesting plot line for later, like maybe an alien race is able to revive him.

Agreed.

 

[Penguin]

Sim. If sim had aken the shuttlepod and ran ther would not have been a Enterprise to save without tucker repairing the engines would have been next to imposible. Eventually a Xindi would have found them helpless without the power to get their weapons on line nor could the Enterprise have been able to accelerate. so the Xindi ship would call in a few friends and then have the happy choice of either destroying the Enterprise and crew; boarding the Enterprise and capturing the crew and then destroying the enterprise or boarding, capturing the crew and taking te enterprise back to their home wold. Not a happy end for enterprise.

Sim could have not survived the operation. Trip had an injured Brain and he ws in a cvoma and wold die if the injured tissue were not replaced.

So if Sim was operated on and the tisssue removed he would immediately lapse in to a coma which he would not awake and in a short while die because of the lack of the tissue taken to save Trip. sim was doomed if the operation took place.

Hell if sim took off in the shuttle pod where would he go he had only 15 days to live anyway so he probably would simply drift in space until he died in 15 days.