NBC still clueless what was wrong with Heroes

[Temis the Vorta]

This story cracked me the hell up! Apparently the problems with Heroes was 1) the characters had superpowers (confusing!) and 2) the story had plot arcs (even more confusing!)

Yes that's right, the problem with Heroes was that the audience wasn't smart enough to follow along. It had nothing to do with the writing being ridiculously bad. The audience just couldn't keep track of all those rules for the "magic powers"; it had nothing to do with the rules changing from episode to episode and the audience noticing because the audience was more on the ball than the writers were.

Solution? Do a procedural cop show about a guy who dresses weird. Ta dah, The Cape!

I won't be watching, it sounds like a bore. It might work, but if it does, it won't have anything to do with NBC learning what was wrong with Heroes because they obviously still do not know.

My hunch is that ABC is more on the right track with No Ordinary Family. Start with characters discovering superpowers and then move the story along from there; don't get stuck in a rut trying to tell S1 in S2, S3, etc. Present an arc, but keep it simple at first - focused on one family - and gradually work in the complexity over time, so that it's manageable and the writers don't get tangled up trying to keep seven or eight characters' plotlines going at once.

But whatever you do, don't bore us all to tears with a procedural. If I want to watch a cop show, there's already two dozen to choose from. A cop in a cape is still a cop.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I'm so tired of procedurals and standalone stories. I might feel differently if they were the least bit original and not some old well worn story we've all seen a million times.

And networks need to realize that serialized dramas don't need to be as confusing, as complex, as interconnected, as time consuming as LOST or S1 of Heroes with a mind boggling number of characters to keep track of. Primetime dramas had been doing nice season long arcs with a modest ensemble and 3 or 4 storylines to follow for decades--personally I think this is the perfect compromise between simple standalones and overly complex arcs.

 

[Dream]

Every time I read these articles I get pissed. Why? Damn it! Why did the writers have to screw up so badly?

 

[Brent]

^ I think a lot of it has to do with interference from the networks. The networks are really really stupid.

 

[Hound of UIster]

I'll watch the Cape for Summer Glau.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Thanks for being honest. It always amuses me when guys claim "I'd never watch a show just because it has a hot chick on it, huff huff huff!!!"

 

[shivkala]

I think shows like Eureka and Doctor Who have the right idea about season long arcs, namely, give us standalone episodes with bits of a larger story mixed in. Stephen Moffat said it best in one of those "Inside Look" things they do on BBC America when he said he wanted to write a show for people to tune in to a few episodes and enjoy it, but with the season finale, he wanted to reward the viewers who saw the whole season. You could pop in for an episode here and there, watch the season finale and enjoy it without being too confused, but at the same time, you do get more out of it having seen the entire season.

Most of the people I've talked to who gave up on serialized shows like Babylon 5 and Lost say the same things, "It got too confusing" and "I missed x number of episodes and couldn't get caught up" (yes, with Hulu and other services, this excuse doesn't hold as much water, but how much of the Nielson demographic would be bothered to do that...). Networks need to realize this and find a way to appease both crowds.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I think shows like Eureka and Doctor Who have the right idea about season long arcs, namely, give us standalone episodes with bits of a larger story mixed in.

I personally hate when shows do this. All it does it make me more interested in the bits and how I can't wait until we get back to the core material(this happened a lot on DS9)than a pointless story meant as a diversion and adds very little to the big picture. I want a show fully serialized or fully episodic.

Most of the people I've talked to who gave up on serialized shows like Babylon 5 and Lost say the same things, "It got too confusing" and "I missed x number of episodes and couldn't get caught up" (yes, with Hulu and other services, this excuse doesn't hold as much water, but how much of the Nielson demographic would be bothered to do that...). Networks need to realize this and find a way to appease both crowds.

I agree that shows like LOST have gotten too complicated and too demanding for the casual viewer which is pretty much everyone else besides obsessive internet fans.

I think the best approach is what S1 of Heroes did--have a season long storyline, raise a series of questions, provide answers shortly and by the end of the season have answered almost all of them with new ones raised in the finale as a launching point for a whole new season long storyline the following year.
LOST had too much to carry over across the years so there was a lot to remember and by the same token forget. A single season storyline also allows for a feel of a complete story in case a series gets canned as well as an ability to go back and rewatch a single season and still enjoy it rather than feeling jerked around which was a problem I had with how LOST didn't fill in all the blanks ultimately and now those earlier season pieces feel unfinished since to some degree they were dependent on things that were suppose to come but never did. Also you can pretty much leave behind everything and start anew each season with new guest stars, characters. That of course wouldn't bar the series revisiting a few elements from earlier seasons.

I also think LOST was too subtle to the point that people didn't realize when stuff was answered or addressed--it was more implicit than it might should have been rightly or wrongly leading casual viewers to give up. I think future shows of the LOST mold need to be a bit less cutesy with the audience in that regard.

 

[bigdaddy]

I didn't read anything past "NBC still clueless".

 

[FormerLurker]

I'll watch the Cape for Summer Glau.

I'd watch Summer Glau mow the lawn.

 

[SG-17]

I think shows like Eureka and Doctor Who have the right idea about season long arcs, namely, give us standalone episodes with bits of a larger story mixed in.

Yes. Stargate SG-1 did this as well up until Season 9 and 10 when they started to have much less standalone and more arc. Atlantis managed to keep it going for its entire run.

 

[Gaith]

I think the best approach is what S1 of Heroes did--have a season long storyline, raise a series of questions, provide answers shortly and by the end of the season have answered almost all of them with new ones raised in the finale as a launching point for a whole new season long storyline the following year.

Or even - and this is a shocking idea, I know - tell a complete story in a season or two and leave it at that?

 

[Aragorn]

Stephen Tobolowsky said it best about the show he was on during season 2 (as the new head of The Company and Elle's foster father), that Heroes basically got through Act I, then instead of going to Act II just repeated Act I.

But seeing how the show spun its wheels while in neutral is only common sense, a trait not held by many of the brass at NBC apparently.

 

[Mr Light]

The problem is most people just don't care enough about TV to have to think about it; whether this is a commentary on their intelligence or not is up to you I've seen the same thing over and over at work. These people, who I would imagine are intelligent, are only interested in reality TV shows because they don't want to have to follow or think about or regularly watch a show like LOST. I both pity and despise them

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'll check out the pilot at the very least for "The Cape" but I'll admit too that I'll watch for Summer Glau. I only first heard about the show when it was announced she was joining the cast.

 

[Vendikarr]

I'll watch the Cape for Summer Glau.

I'd watch Summer Glau mow the lawn.

In a halter top, and daisy dukes..... <mind wanders off>

 

[startrekwatcher]

The problem is most people just don't care enough about TV to have to think about it; whether this is a commentary on their intelligence or not is up to you

I'm sure there are just lazy people who don't want to put the effort into it but I also think that shows like LOST demand a lot from its viewers including time trying to figure out when an event took place in relation to other events, remembering who is who and who knows what, gleaning really subtle clues and details from the show etc etc that a lot of people can barely find the time to just watch a show let a lone spare the extra time to rewatch it and participate in discussions about it to get the full viewing experience out of it. Let's face it a single episode of LOST contained about as much information as most 2 hours of other dramas to process.

That's why I think the better approach is the more traditional serialized storytelling along the lines of B5 or DALLAS--modest ensemble so they don't have to keep track of too many characters, linear in order progression of the story so easy to follow, not so interconnected, having self-contained season long storylines wrapped up by the end of each season etc. Afterall this is more manageable for a regular viewer--they can enjoy a heavily serialized story and not seem too daunting to watch and not feel like crappy procedurals is all there is, they need not have to rewatch over & over again an episode to follow what's going on--they can just watch it once and get everything from it. I think LOST intimidated a lot of people.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Most of the people I've talked to who gave up on serialized shows like Babylon 5 and Lost say the same things, "It got too confusing" and "I missed x number of episodes and couldn't get caught up" (yes, with Hulu and other services, this excuse doesn't hold as much water, but how much of the Nielson demographic would be bothered to do that...). Networks need to realize this and find a way to appease both crowds.

The number of purely episodic series on TV vastly outnumbers the number of serialized shows. CBS for instance is all episodic (from what I gather, I don't watch anything in that network). So I don't see why people like me, who prefer the mainly- or pure-serialized format, shouldn't get a few bones tossed our way. People who dislike/can't follow a serialized show have tons of alternative options and no right to complain.

Or even - and this is a shocking idea, I know - tell a complete story in a season or two and leave it at that?

If the ratings are good enough to merit more seasons, the show will be extended. If the showrunners won't cooperate, the studio gives them the boot and brings in new showrunners. (Lost was a very rare exception to this rule - ABC probably wanted to keep Cuse & Lindelof happy so as not to screw up the long-term relationship - and also not come across as total philistines).

So you might get a two-year story that ends but then another story commences with the same characters and new behind-the-scenes cast. This situation is exceedingly rare, probably because showrunners are loathe to leave a successful show, knowing the odds of them having another winning show anytime soon are way against them. In an industry where 2/3rds (and it may be worse now) of new products flop, everyone grabs onto success like a lamprey.

I think LOST intimidated a lot of people.

A show like Lost will definitely run off a lot of the audience. But all TV (except for the truly mass-market shows that all slot into certain formulas) is balkanizing into smaller and smaller groups. Take the much-lauded Mad Men. It gets a puny audience and survives just fine. It's too boring and stagnant for my tastes but I wouldn't zap it off the air if I could, because it does appeal to some folks, who aren't going to get a show like that anyplace else. And even the morons who watch nothing but reality garbage deserve something that suits their tastes (though it would be nice if there weren't quite so much of it; there are only so many time slots to go around).

 

[Biggshow]

The problem with "mystery" or "wtf" shows is that people get bored or impatient if the mystery continues for too long. And then the producers are left with the "Well, do we solve the mystery or keep telling them to trust us" scenario. The problem with solving the mystery for a TV series built on the mystery is that you'd better have another story in the pipeline to take its place or you're sunk. This happened with "Twin Peaks" way back in the day. They answered the "Who killed Laura Palmer" story in the first third of the second season, floundered trying to come up with another compelling story in the middle third of the second season and lost all their viewers so that there was nobody around to care when they started the Wyndham Earle story in the last third of the season.

I think this is a trap that might kill "The Event" (much like "Flash Forward") if they're not careful. I saw the pilot for "No Ordinary Family" in San Diego last week and liked it. The problem there is that the story might be too simple for people who are looking for a bit more mystery. Plus, it's aimed at a more family-friendly audience which may turn off some people who are looking for a bit more edge. Michael Chiklis and Julie Benz are both really good in it, though.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

it's easy to see how The Event might flounder, especially if they don't give us characters compelling enough to get us through the inevitable dangling-clues-in-front-of-us-for-years routine. Just give us people to root for (or against, in the case of the deliciously devious bad guys they promised to bring in) and I'll hang in there. I appreciate that they're trying to do something difficult and not just giving up and doing yet another cop show instead.

No Ordinary Family has a much more obvious route to success (and if they blow it, it'll be more infuriating than Heroes' crash and burn was): start out with the fun, innocent process of the family getting used to their powers and then slowly let the shadows gather around. People can't get superpowers without attracting jealousy, greed and fear. That's really all the writers need, plus imagination. The show could run for years without running out of material.