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Narada's Crew

He'sDeadJim

Ensign
Red Shirt
I like the way THESE Romulans were portrayed.

Emotional, passionate, insanely evil-the polar opposite of their Vulcan kin.

Thoughts?
 
I genuinely enjoyed their sort of blue-collar air of menace. I hate to keep harping on it, but for some reason I get an echo of the killer in "My Bloody Valentine 3-D" from them.

They're the gritty, industrial side of the future we don't normally see in Trek.

Could be I just empathize with them for being so thoroughly pissed off that everything they love has been blown all to hell and collectively shat upon by a smugly uncaring universe. Or something. y'know.
 
I admit I prefer my villains to be a bit less cartoonish but that's tricky to pull off in an action blockbuster. Khan was a great pantomime villain but even he didn't have much depth and Nero had far less depth than him.

I've always found the Romulans to be ill-defined as a species. The Klingons, Borg, Ferengi, Vulcans etc all seem to have distinct racial characteristics but if you took away their ears woulld the plot have been any different if a human colony had been destroyed and they had been human?

And, although I was being facetious I really don't know why the Romulans were portrayed as sexist. It was a departure from their 23rd century counterparts let alone the 24th century that the miners came from. Of course I might have missed a token female opening hailing frequencies in the background...
 
And, although I was being facetious I really don't know why the Romulans were portrayed as sexist. It was a departure from their 23rd century counterparts let alone the 24th century that the miners came from. Of course I might have missed a token female opening hailing frequencies in the background...

Just because, they do not appear to be any woman aboard the ship, you claim that they are sexist!

What's the logic?
 
And, although I was being facetious I really don't know why the Romulans were portrayed as sexist. It was a departure from their 23rd century counterparts let alone the 24th century that the miners came from. Of course I might have missed a token female opening hailing frequencies in the background...

Just because, they do not appear to be any woman aboard the ship, you claim that they are sexist!

What's the logic?

Lol that old excuse. We've never seen Kirk have sex with a man but do you assume that he must have done so anyway?

You can come up with a thousand excuses to explain the absence of women on screen (e.g. they were all killed by the Klingons, wiped out by space herpes, busy making the tea etc) but they are just excuses. The writers and casting people are sexist for not employing actresses and stuntwomen to play Romulans. It gives the appearance that the Romulans are sexist to say the least.
 
I believe there WAS a female Romulan. In fact they kinda used her as an actual character in the comics (based on the real bridge crew character from the film.)
 
I believe there WAS a female Romulan. In fact they kinda used her as an actual character in the comics (based on the real bridge crew character from the film.)

Yeah you briefly see at least one (can't remember which scene though). Think she was the only one still with hair though what I saw make it look like it was tightly wound dreadlocks/braids tied into a ponytail, so it kind of looked like it blended with her tatoos.
 
That's cool then! I hadn't noticed her. Not as bad as I thought but still could do better.

I'm more grumblier about the absence of Vulcan leader T'Pau.

To get back on track though, does anybody think that the Romulans have any kind of racial identity to speak of? I think Trek has traditionally been very poor at making aliens seem alien. B5 did a better job, although V'Ger was quite good.
 
I like the way THESE Romulans were portrayed.

Emotional, passionate, insanely evil-the polar opposite of their Vulcan kin.

Thoughts?

Wait, there was portrayal to these Romulans? Nero was an unstable lunatic screaming at everyone, Ayel looked just like him but didn't scream, the rest were background extras.
 
Lol that old excuse. We've never seen Kirk have sex with a man but do you assume that he must have done so anyway?

You can come up with a thousand excuses to explain the absence of women on screen (e.g. they were all killed by the Klingons, wiped out by space herpes, busy making the tea etc) but they are just excuses. The writers and casting people are sexist for not employing actresses and stuntwomen to play Romulans. It gives the appearance that the Romulans are sexist to say the least.


Whats your definition of sexism?

Edit:

Nero, goes out of his way to destroy the Federation and possibly the Klingon Empire to save his wife and child, and you call him sexist?
 
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That's cool then! I hadn't noticed her. Not as bad as I thought but still could do better.

I'm more grumblier about the absence of Vulcan leader T'Pau.

To get back on track though, does anybody think that the Romulans have any kind of racial identity to speak of? I think Trek has traditionally been very poor at making aliens seem alien. B5 did a better job, although V'Ger was quite good.
Maybe she was one of the female Vulcans we see.
 
You can come up with a thousand excuses to explain the absence of women on screen (e.g. they were all killed by the Klingons, wiped out by space herpes, busy making the tea etc) but they are just excuses. The writers and casting people are sexist for not employing actresses and stuntwomen to play Romulans. It gives the appearance that the Romulans are sexist to say the least.

Whats your definition of sexism?

Edit: Nero, goes out of his way to destroy the Federation and possibly the Klingon Empire to save his wife and child, and you call him sexist?

I think we have to distinguish the sexism of the species from the sexism of the writers and casting people. The Federation is supposed to espouse equality and women make up roughly 50% of humans but we do not see 50% female security, female captains, female admirals, and the women that we do see seem far less likely to get any lines.

The Vulcan woman may indeed have been T'Pau. She was the only woman and she didn't get any lines, so she could be anybody and they didn't demonstrate Vulcan equality.

Conversely, if the Ferengi have no women on ship we can say that they are sexist but that the casting and writing is correct.

Further, there are several high profile recurring races that treat women less favourably than men but no recurring high profile races where women are in charge. On two occasions where women have been in charge the male characters have shown an aversion to that kind of political structure.

Star Trek as a rule scores quite poorly on subconscious sexism. Several high profile female characters that we've had (7 of 9 & Rachel Garrett) were originally written as male and were changed later on. A lot of other characters are written as male and remain so.

TOS starts off with an imbalance because so many of the main characters are male but, instead of redressing that balance with the suppporting cast, we see the opposite: most of the supporting cast is also male and two of the three main recurring female characters are largely absent.

Nero's motivations are not sexist in themselves, although they are a bit cliche. Go back over Trek history to see how many grieving husbands/fathers have been bent on some kind of revenge. Now see how many grieving wives/mothers have been intent on revenge. I suppose we can sort of count Lenore Karidian in TOS.

In spite of its sexist roots, TOS did put a bit of effort in to demonstrate more equality than the time in which it as made. Modern Trek cannot say the same. DS9 probably came the closest but even there you had quite a large imbalance between male and female characters.

Sexism for me involves not accepting a couple of high profile women as equality. Margaret Thatcher was a woman at the top but she had no other women in her cabinet so I would say that the sexual imbalance indicates sexism in her government.

So for me, Romulans are supposed to espouse equality and yet we do not see an equal number of men and women on ship. I'd let the Klingons get away with it but it is not acceptable for Romulans. And yes, we can all come up with hundreds of possible reasons but many of those will involve sexist notions based on current thinking but the fact remains that there were few women because they chose to cast few women. Sexist.
 
Was it sexist or was it simply a logical choice ?
After all the Narada was a mining ship full of miners.

Granted, I have no idea how the 24th century Romulan bussiness field is but going by today's standards I don't believe there are many women who chose to become miners.
 
Was it sexist or was it simply a logical choice ?
After all the Narada was a mining ship full of miners.

Granted, I have no idea how the 24th century Romulan bussiness field is but going by today's standards I don't believe there are many women who chose to become miners.

Just refer back to my above post. There are indeed many possible reasons. 'Because current day miners are mostly men' falls into the category that I consider to be reinforcement of a modern day stereotype i.e. sexist.

I have no strong objection to a gender divide. We know that human women use more white matter related to language and emotional thinking while men use more grey matter relating to visual cues and spatial awareness. I suppose slightly more HUMAN male engineers makes sense in that respect. My objection comes because the divide is spread across all species and almost exclusively in favour of men.

Plus things are actually worse than I thought! The alien we see as an officer on the bridge of the USS Kelvin in the opening act of the movie is Alnschloss K’Bentayr. The Intel viral website Starfleet Shipyard states that it comes from the planet Monchezke and it appears to be a male. The Aliens feature on the DVD explains that, like the Talosians in “The Cage”, this alien was played by a woman yet intended to be a male alien.

So of the two actresses focused on in the command crew on the Kelvin bridge, one of them is meant to be a man! I'm not sure what that bumps the ratio down to 5:1? I simply do not get why the writers repeatedly treat ranking women in Starfleet as rare or second-class citizens. These guys seem to have no concept of gender equality at all!
 
Given what we've seen in their other work, which features strong female leads and characters, I think you might be over reacting
 
Lol - nah - I just don't want them to become complacent.

Edit: Just watched the remake of The Day the Earth Stood Still. The film was reasonable but the male/female dynamic was pretty good considering that it is set in the modern day. They had a fair number of female scientists, soldiers, and politicians and actually gave them some lines that didn't just relate to them being mothers and girlfriends. So this is set in the modern era when the majority of police officers, soldiers, and scientists are male but the writers and casting people still managed to make sure that the actresses/ female characters contributed significantly more than in Star Trek. It can be done.
 
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I think we have to distinguish the sexism of the species from the sexism of the writers and casting people. The Federation is supposed to espouse equality and women make up roughly 50% of humans but we do not see 50% female security, female captains, female admirals...

Sexism for me involves not accepting a couple of high profile women as equality...

Just refer back to my above post. There are indeed many possible reasons. 'Because current day miners are mostly men' falls into the category that I consider to be reinforcement of a modern day stereotype i.e. sexist.

This is the problem, equality does not mean that women and men must be represented in equal numbers. This is not the definition of sexism, and is a thoroughly flawed logic.

The definition is:
"discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of the opposite sex"
 
I think we have to distinguish the sexism of the species from the sexism of the writers and casting people. The Federation is supposed to espouse equality and women make up roughly 50% of humans but we do not see 50% female security, female captains, female admirals...

This is the problem, equality does not mean that women and men must be represented in equal numbers. This is not the definition of sexism, and is a thoroughly flawed logic.

The definition is:
"discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of the opposite sex"

I'm a lawyer so I do understand that discrimination is a complex issue. Direct discrimination involves treating a person of one sex less favourably and indirect discrimination is where you lay down unnecessary rules that one sex would find it more difficult to comply with e.g. height restriction.

Acting is tradtionally exempt because it would be considered wrong to have a man playing a woman's part (Jaye Davison apart). Personally I think this is a bit too lenient. Where you have an institution which is on record as supporting equality of the sexes and more men are picked for the generic supporting (particularly speaking) roles than women then there is an issue there, albeit one that is on very shaky legal ground because of the legal exemption.

Writing the part and then randomly ascribing a sex to the character at a very early stage is the best way to go. It's a simple method (subject to a few exceptions when dealing with love interests, parents (i.e. you only have to determine one sex randomly unless you are happy to go with a significant number of same sex parents & relationships). The writers seem to choose the sex of their characters and they have always regularly chosen more men in every single incarnation of the franchise.
 
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