Naming Structure of Klingon Houses

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Galaxy, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Galaxy

    Galaxy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    I was wondering about this, especially with Discovery seeming to focus much on Klingon houses. Is there some kind of a rule to this in the bibles of the various shows? Because it does not seem to be consistent.

    Gowron's house was called the House of Gowron, and he himself was called Gowron. The House of Duras was always called that across the centuries, and the various members were addressed as Duras, or in the context of something as Duras sisters. Worf's House, however, was called the House of Mogh, even after Mogh had long passed. Worf himself was never called Mogh, except as "son of," but it was never implied that Mogh was his "last name" for lack of a better term. Further more the lawyer in ST VI was called Worf.

    P.S. I do believe we will see the House of Mogh in Discovery.
     
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Perhaps Worf simply didn't want to have the house named after him.

    I'm sure he would have been entitled to call it the House of Worf if he so chose, but probably just didn't want to. It is probably up to the House leader, whether or not to have the House named after them.

    And Klingons don't have "last names", as such. They have only one name, and are 'son of' or 'daughter of' their father. For instance:

    - In TNG, there's "Worf, son of Mogh". Because Mogh is his father's name.
    - ST VI's version would be properly named as "Worf, son of (whoever HIS father was)".
    - Kor (from TOS and DS9) is "Kor, son of Rynar" because his father's name was Rynar.
    - Etc. etc. etc.

    Now that the House of Mogh has been dissolved and Worf is part of the House of Martok, though, Worf's name does not change. He's still called Worf, son of Mogh. So the House name doesn't have to be part of a Klingon's own personal name.

    Alexander Rozhenko is an exception to all of this, because he was largely raised by humans (the Rozhenkos) or part-humans (his mother K'Ehleyr) so he follows human naming conventions. He could introduce himself as "Alexander, son of Worf" if he wanted, though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  3. Galaxy

    Galaxy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    That could very well be. Brings up the question is there any other house, other then the House of Duras, which keeps the name over a greater period of time? I currently can not think of one.
     
  4. Galaxy

    Galaxy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Although there is an example of a house changing names. The House Kozak, became the House of Grilka, and for a short while the House of Quark. ;)
     
  5. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Location:
    SB-31, Daran V
    Perhaps Gowron's was a new(er) House and he was it's founder - just another indication of his total awesomeness.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    ^ "Glory to me...and my HOOOOOOUUUUUUUSSSSSSE." :lol:
     
  7. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    I'm pretty sure Gowron was a noble. It offset him from Martok, who was explicitly a commoner who gained his recognition through battlefield achievement (and possibly marriage). Gowron also didn't seem to raise any eyebrows when he ran for Chancellor as one of the final two candidates.

    I think there might be a ceremony or state of affairs required to change the "House of [name]" to one's own name. Step One would be to become head of the household. Step Two might be gaining recognition from the High Council, or winning a requisite amount of battles in your name, or bribing an official, or what-have-you. It's also possible that Klingon name recycling (as seen with Worf, Duras, and Toral) leads to an illusion of self-named houses that are anything but.

    Then again, the House of Kozak, Quark, and Grilka, throws some of that out the window.
     
  8. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Location:
    SB-31, Daran V
    ^^^^^
    It may also be a thing that one can show up and usurp an established house by force/power/charisma/whatever. Call it a coup or a hostile takeover or what have you. "From this day forward the House of Kor will be known as the House of Phred! I proclaim such by right of arms!"
     
    Tim Thomason likes this.
  9. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    On the run.
    You forgot my favorite one from House of Quark.

    "D'Ghor, son of...whatever."
    :D
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Seems there's a simple cover-all-bases answer to all this, as Tim pointed out: each and every House is forever named after its founding (male?) member, except if the (paternal?) line is extinguished.

    No, the House of Duras is not named after the man who (perhaps) killed K'Mpec and (most graphically) was killed by Worf. There was one Duras in the supposedly very same House in the mid-22nd century already; the founding father could thus have been yet another Duras, from a line of fifty Durases with some in-between Borases and Korases and Torals and whatnot.

    When Kozak dies without (male?) heir, the physical aspect of his House is up for grabs; Grilka takes it and founds her own House. But Quark is male, never mind him being alien, and apparently Klingons aren't utterly egalitarian.

    When Martok dies, supposedly in a House of his own founding, Worf could grab it and have the House of Worf. More probably, he'd be expected to merge it into the House of Mogh, the flesh-and-blood heir to which he remains, and thus honor the memory of great-great-great-great-great-grandfather Mogh.

    After all, when the most recent Mogh from the house of gramps^5 Mogh died, nothing about his House changed except its external trappings and political status and the chances of ever again being recognized and other irrelevant things like that...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
    Longinus likes this.
  11. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    In STO continuity, Drex succeds Martok as head of the House of Martok (thereafter House of Drex?), however Treklit has him die commanding the IKS Rovlaq in A Singular Destiny, therefore presumably leaving the House to Worf as you suggest above.
     
  12. Lieut. Arex

    Lieut. Arex Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 18, 2001
    Location:
    Nav console
    I'd argue that the Worf in TUC is TNG Worf's maternal grandfather and not the father of Mogh, because we've seen very consistently, that a Klingon's brow ridges are passed down through the paternal line , all of Mogh' descendants, Worf, Kurn, Alexander, share the same pattern similarly the line of Duras have the same ridge pattern, so, perhaps there is a House of Worf, populated by Lt Commander Worf's lawyer cousins
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  13. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    On the run.
    The Worf in Star Trek 6 also has the same ridges. They are flatter of course, but they are the same pattern as TNG Worf.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Yeah, I'm fairly sure that Colonel Worf was always intended to be the father of Mogh and thus the paternal grandfather of TNG's Worf. IIRC, there are publicity materials for ST VI that seem to bear this out, and I think Michael Dorn has also confirmed this.
     
  15. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    Dahar Master final exams
    The question is, does a Klingon house take on the name of its current leader, or do the heads of Klingon houses that we have seen just happen to also have the name of the founder of the house?

    Kor
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    ^ I think it's up to the leader of the House. They can name their House after themselves, or keep the existing name. Or change it to any name they want.

    For example: If Martok dies, Worf - assuming he's the most senior surviving member of the House - could choose to keep the name 'House of Martok' (which he probably would, since he and Martok were such good friends), change it to 'House of Worf', or adopt a completely different House name altogether.

    Then again, the House naming structure that we have been discussing, could be localized to only a certain percentage of Klingon culture. There may be other parts of Klingon society which have a completely different way of naming and organizing their lives (such as the 'Line names' a la "The Final Reflection").

    I mean, Human society has many different ways of organizing family lineage; I'm sure Klingon society is no different in that regard.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
    Sci likes this.
  17. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    That is an excellent point. There may be different naming traditions for different Houses throughout the Empire, on the basis of both differing cultures on Qo'noS and newer Klingon cultures that could have developed on worlds colonized by Klingons throughout their space.

    I find myself mentally comparing the Klingon Empire to the Realm of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros in Game of Thrones. Westeros used to consist of seven different, independent kingdoms before they were all conquered and united as one realm (with the name "Seven Kingdoms," even though its constituent polities were no longer actually kingdoms in their own right). Each of the seven regions maintained their own local cultural identity and belief systems, and each was ruled by a particular noble House -- with bannermen and lower houses beneath each noble House, pledged to that House and its ruling lord.

    It makes me genuinely curious how DSC will develop the different Klingon Houses -- how many Great Houses are there? Do the Great Houses have lesser houses pledged to them in fealty? On what basis are the Houses organized? Are the Great Houses the ones whose lords get to be members of the High Council? Does each Great House get only one High Councillor, or multiple? Do the lesser noble houses also get to be High Councillors? Etc.
     
  18. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    For what it's worth, the novels do establish Colonel Worf is Mogh's father.
     
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Reformation Day
    A bit sarcastic response, but I think that Gowron was physically incapable of raising his eyebrows without his eyeballs falling out of his head.
    I was genuinely impressed by Gowron's reaction to Quark's duel.
     
  20. JesterFace

    JesterFace Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Location:
    Suomi Finland
    Maybe the name of a house can be changed if the "ruler" wishes it, Worf wanted to keep his father's name, House of Mogh, maybe later it might become House of Alexander if Alex wants.