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Mr. Sternbach - Questions regarding the U.S.S. Defiant & the DS9TM

Praetor

Vice Admiral
Admiral
Mr. Sternbach, I have several questions regarding the Defiant that I'm hoping you may be able to shed light to. I realize that it was not your original design but hopefully since you created the DS9 Technical Manual which describes its facilities pretty fully your knowledge should be (as always) pretty definitive.

Many (in fact, basically all) of the inconsistencies regarding the Defiant have been discussed at Ex Astris Scientia and it's primarily those that are the fuel for my questions. Here is a link to Memory-Alpha's comprehensive article on the class if anyone has any questions in need of clarifying so I don't post a billion pictures.

1) Size
I realize that initially the beefy runabout turned starship and resulting confusion no doubt led to no one - writers, designers, producers - being just how sure the ship was after she was introduced. I know for the most part the ship was shown as being around 120 meters long in man FX shots, although others (notably in 'First Contact' where perhaps the FX team wasn't as familiar with what size the ship should be) sometimes make it seem both larger and smaller. Special affects inconsistencies aside, how did you (or did you) and the others arrive at the decision of the ship's size, or was it arbitrary?

2) MSD
The cross section of the ship that was shown both on screen and in the TM which I presume to be by Mr. Drexler shows only 4 decks but there was at least one mention of there being up to five decks and an Okudagram that showed listing for six... additionally many features mentioned in the TM weren't shown in the diagram. I'm wondering if this MSD was created before or after the ship's size and features were settled on, and if so, where, if anywhere, did you intend deck five to be? Also, do you believe that the small lights resembling windows visible on the ship's ventral were originally intended to be windows when the model was built, and if so, what do you surmise they 'actually' are?

3) Impulse Engines vs Torpedo Tubes
I always thought that the two glowing red lights on either side of the ship were the impulse engine until seeing in the TM that the impulse engines were actually in the ship's tail and aft torpedo launchers appeared to be located in the glowing red slots. I was curious why you chose to place the impulse engines at the tail rather than where it seemed like they would be?

4) The Forward Airlock(s)
Would the two yellow hatches on the warhead nose be the two airlock hatches for docking with the station, and if so, why two? Is this just a case of forcing something that must be there to line up with the model's pre-existing details? I had theorized that perhaps this would have been devised in-universe by Starfleet as a means of penetrating Borg shields, but that's just me justifying.

5) Forward Torpedoes
I was curious if the forward torpedoes, which seem to always fire from the dorsal notches between the triangular sections and the regular hull, could also fire from the ventral notches, or if it was your intention that there were two tubes in each 'pod'?

Thanks for your expertise!
 
Mr. Sternbach, I have several questions regarding the Defiant that I'm hoping you may be able to shed light to. I realize that it was not your original design but hopefully since you created the DS9 Technical Manual which describes its facilities pretty fully your knowledge should be (as always) pretty definitive.

Many (in fact, basically all) of the inconsistencies regarding the Defiant have been discussed at Ex Astris Scientia and it's primarily those that are the fuel for my questions. Here is a link to Memory-Alpha's comprehensive article on the class if anyone has any questions in need of clarifying so I don't post a billion pictures.

1) Size
I realize that initially the beefy runabout turned starship and resulting confusion no doubt led to no one - writers, designers, producers - being just how sure the ship was after she was introduced. I know for the most part the ship was shown as being around 120 meters long in man FX shots, although others (notably in 'First Contact' where perhaps the FX team wasn't as familiar with what size the ship should be) sometimes make it seem both larger and smaller. Special affects inconsistencies aside, how did you (or did you) and the others arrive at the decision of the ship's size, or was it arbitrary?

2) MSD
The cross section of the ship that was shown both on screen and in the TM which I presume to be by Mr. Drexler shows only 4 decks but there was at least one mention of there being up to five decks and an Okudagram that showed listing for six... additionally many features mentioned in the TM weren't shown in the diagram. I'm wondering if this MSD was created before or after the ship's size and features were settled on, and if so, where, if anywhere, did you intend deck five to be? Also, do you believe that the small lights resembling windows visible on the ship's ventral were originally intended to be windows when the model was built, and if so, what do you surmise they 'actually' are?

3) Impulse Engines vs Torpedo Tubes
I always thought that the two glowing red lights on either side of the ship were the impulse engine until seeing in the TM that the impulse engines were actually in the ship's tail and aft torpedo launchers appeared to be located in the glowing red slots. I was curious why you chose to place the impulse engines at the tail rather than where it seemed like they would be?

4) The Forward Airlock(s)
Would the two yellow hatches on the warhead nose be the two airlock hatches for docking with the station, and if so, why two? Is this just a case of forcing something that must be there to line up with the model's pre-existing details? I had theorized that perhaps this would have been devised in-universe by Starfleet as a means of penetrating Borg shields, but that's just me justifying.

5) Forward Torpedoes
I was curious if the forward torpedoes, which seem to always fire from the dorsal notches between the triangular sections and the regular hull, could also fire from the ventral notches, or if it was your intention that there were two tubes in each 'pod'?

Thanks for your expertise!

I add this to the above quiry;
What kind of shuttlecraft are Defiant class ships equipped with?

Since the overall size of the ship determines the shuttle(s) that can be carried,I think it curious that a 170 M ship has room for a shuttlecraft!
 
The 170m Defiant has room for 4 Type-18 shuttlpods and a Type-10 personnel shuttlecraft. The 120m Defiant might not have room for the former and pretty much removes the latter from the continuity entirely, which is one reason I tend to favor the 170m Defiant (hey, I can fit any set or shuttle or deck into the bigger version, but insisting on the 120m version is going to cost me).
 
Mr. Sternbach, I have several questions regarding the Defiant that I'm hoping you may be able to shed light to. I realize that it was not your original design but hopefully since you created the DS9 Technical Manual which describes its facilities pretty fully your knowledge should be (as always) pretty definitive.

I only wrote the text for the manual; all ship data and drawings came from Doug Drexler and other materials from the DS9 art department. Since I didn't design the Defiant and thus didn't draw blueprints, I have no real extensive knowledge of the ship, sorry.

Rick
www.spacemodelsystems.com
 
Did you guys know that during post for the episode "One Small Step" -VOY, they actually used footage of the real Mars but TPTB decided it didn't look "trek" enough" and replaced it with CG?

back on topic, I wish Okuda or whomever would make some of the instrumentation panel art, sound effects, ship designs and whatnot public domain on CD ROM so that we could buy it and make some nifty designs for our desktops and websites.
 
Mr. Sternbach, I have several questions regarding the Defiant that I'm hoping you may be able to shed light to. I realize that it was not your original design but hopefully since you created the DS9 Technical Manual which describes its facilities pretty fully your knowledge should be (as always) pretty definitive.

I only wrote the text for the manual; all ship data and drawings came from Doug Drexler and other materials from the DS9 art department. Since I didn't design the Defiant and thus didn't draw blueprints, I have no real extensive knowledge of the ship, sorry.

Rick
www.spacemodelsystems.com

Oh. Well. Crap. This wasn't really thread-worthy after all. Thanks anyway though. :)

As well thought out as the 120m Defiant is, I have to say, I still prefer a length of 170m. I wonder if this was something decided by the DS9 art department, then changed soon after to 120m, and thus the inconsistencies? It makes the six-deck issue go away at least and makes the shuttles fit better. I also prefer the impulse engines to go in the other 'spurs' near the warp engines.

Maybe I should pull out those old deck plan drawings I did of a six-deck Defiant and revisit them...
 
^

The window-y things (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/defiant/defiant-keel.jpg) work a bit better at 170m, so the "changed" idea might hold up. It's all a bit schizophrenic: the deck plans in DS9TM show a 120-meter Defiant with little wiggle room, but they are reproduced at what would be 1/1000 scale for a 170m Defiant.

Well, the bigger one gives you room for Jefferies tubes and thicker hull elements than usual for a combat-oriented ship and whatnot.

When you did your six-deck version, did you take any inspiration from the six-deck chart in the Captain's Chair version of Defiant?
 
Did you guys know that during post for the episode "One Small Step" -VOY, they actually used footage of the real Mars but TPTB decided it didn't look "trek" enough" and replaced it with CG?

Why am I not surprised...

back on topic, I wish Okuda or whomever would make some of the instrumentation panel art, sound effects, ship designs and whatnot public domain on CD ROM so that we could buy it and make some nifty designs for our desktops and websites.

I'm surprised apple or Microsoft hasn't hired him to design a skin/look for their next operating system... I mean both companies are filled with trekkies. :lol:
 
No, Praetor, this was indeed thread-worthy. You brought up many good points and interesting questions.

Some are answered over at Ex Astris Scientia, though certainly if you hang out in Trek Tech you already are familiar with that site.
 
Yeah, I think I have my mind made up what the answers to most of these inconsistencies are (thanks Ex Astris!) but I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts, too.
 
Praetor, I remember some discussion some time ago that heavily favored the 120-meter Defiant length. Alex Rosenzweig (AlexR, one of the Trek Tech moderators, and co-author of "Starship Spotter") was the most convincing. I agree with you that shuttles, et al, fit better on a 170m ship than a 120m ship, though. At the risk of ridicule, I did thake the Defiant MSD, enlarge it several times, then measure the man-sized figure in it and then measured the entire ship out...fits right at 120 meters. If you don't have "Starship Spotter", the stats are 119.5 meters long x 90.3 meters wide x 22.5 meters tall.

I agree that the Defiant has been inconsistently portrayed over the years, ranging from way too small (about runabout-sized when the Enterprise-E does a fly-by in "First Contact" and when it nestles up to a Galor-class in DS9's "Defiant") to a tad too big (about Miranda-sized when two Mirandas are nailed when escorting it in the midst of Dominion ships in "What You Leave Behind"), as well as being part of arguments on the diameter of DS9 itself, as seen when docked with the station.

Hope this helps.

99.5
 
It does help, and I appreciate it. I think ultimately with these things you just have to go with either the original artistic intention or what fits best, and while it may not be the original intention, I can live with 120 meters for the D.
 
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