movie XI questions(Potential Spoilers)

[Ronald Held]

I thought that would post now versus a weeks ago.
Red Matter, short of being derived from decalithium(star trek:Countdown), has the property of converting a planetary object into a temporary wormhole?
How large/long is the new Enterprise? What speed can it attain(in TOS/TNG warp scale units)? How could the Narada change the tech of the Constitution class ships so rapidly?
How did the stardates before Nero's incursion become yyyy.ff?

 

[USS KG5]

Red Matter, short of being derived from decalithium(star trek:Countdown), has the property of converting a planetary object into a temporary wormhole?

A black hole it appears - and the black holes in question let you travel through time.

How large/long is the new Enterprise?

Looks about the same size as the classic series one, maybe a bit bigger.

What speed can it attain(in TOS/TNG warp scale units)?

Well the little speedo at the front says "warp factor 4.349" or similar at some point. Seems pretty speedy though.

How could the Narada change the tech of the Constitution class ships so rapidly?

Well it didn't really - the new film has a different look-and-feel to the TV show made 40 years ago, I think it looked great.

How did the stardates before Nero's incursion become yyyy.ff?

Well the dates in TOS never made sense really - they were deliberately used in the first place to avoid tying down the time period, but as we all now "know" the 23rd century was Kirks, why not just use the year? Makes a fair bit of sense.

Superb movie

 

[Ronald Held]

I have to disagree in that a collapse to a black hole does have anything in the interior arriving at another space-time location. I think it is a temporary wormhole.
What speedo in the front on what console, or screencap?

 

[Delta1]

Black hole, worm hole, or Hawking hole, if Countdown is to be believed, the hole doesn't send you back in time along your own timeline, but shunts you off into a different timeline. Had Spock and Nero actually gone to an earlier time in their own universe, their alterations would have removed or altered the Enterprise-E in the Hobus system, "Yesterday's Enterprise"-style. The fact that this did not happen in the last few pages of Countdown indicates that Spock and Nero did not change the past of that universe.

Unless the final two pages of Countdown are the new timeline created by Spock and Nero, and the Enterprise-E just happens to be in the Hobus system, where Spock' had saved the universe in a manner not entirely unlike the way Spock did in the original timeline--perhaps willingly going into the past in order to perpetuate some kind of nutty time loop.

 

[shipfisher]

Can we assume "red matter" generated black holes fully evaporate?

Would Spock's initial plan really help Romulus much? It was destroyed so fast that it must have been it's home star going nova. Would sucking said star into a singularity maintain real estate values on Romulus?

Would drilling to a planet's core involve a beam that temporairily maintains some sort of forcefield shaft through what would surely be molten rock for the most part?

Other than the maybe 10% devoted to the warp core (cores? - there seemed a few of them in the finale) and such, does the engineering section of the new Enterprise produce multiple products, including lager, ale and pilsner, etc?

 

[Captain Robert April]

Sounds like technobabble taken to a new, insane, level.

The more I think about this movie, the madder I get.

 

[miraclefan]

Can we assume "red matter" generated black holes fully evaporate?

Would Spock's initial plan really help Romulus much? It was destroyed so fast that it must have been it's home star going nova. Would sucking said star into a singularity maintain real estate values on Romulus?

If you read COUNTDOWN you'd know that the hobos star was about a hundred light years away!(Please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Yeah, which made no sense whatsoever. What natural forces could cause a supernova to propagate across space at FTL speeds? The Romulans should have had a century to prepare for the effects of Hobus' explosion.

 

[miraclefan]

Yeah, which made no sense whatsoever. What natural forces could cause a supernova to propagate across space at FTL speeds? The Romulans should have had a century to prepare for the effects of Hobus' explosion.

Unless it was a ''sub-space'' supernova!

 

[nx1701g]

So was the destruction of the Hobus system a Gamma Ray Burst?

 

[Albertese]

WARNING!! This post DOES CONTAIN SPOILERS!!! Not just potential anymore. So stop whining.

As far as the ship's size goes, I'm of the opinion that it was considerably bigger than the 1701 we have always known and loved. Judging from the windows on the saucer rim, I'd guess as much as double the size! I haven't had a chance to look at shuttle set vs. VFX shuttle w/ hanger, but I don't think it'll disprove that. Also, the Kelvin seemed smaller than the enterprise, but it carried 800 people! I suppose that Enterprise would carry 1000 or better.

On the other hand, the pod that launches out the neck that carries Kirk to Frozen Scotty World (Delta Vega IIRC) seems pretty big when it leaves, but winds up fairly small when it lands. Could be a glitch, or a dramatic decision so the audience would know what was going on, or maybe a bulky re-entry casing that had broken off and landed elsewhere before we see Kirk waking up.

Also the bridge seems to have an actual window looking forward into space that can have the viewscreen image superimposed over it. Looking through this window from the outside should give a sense of scale. But exactly what scale, I'm not sure. I'll try to pay closer attention on the next viewing.

I bet the guys who put this together made a cutaway. I'd love to see that! If not it's only a matter of time before some fan does.

--Alex

 

[nx1701g]

According to the website the Enterprise has a maximum warp of Warp 8.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Yeah, which made no sense whatsoever. What natural forces could cause a supernova to propagate across space at FTL speeds? The Romulans should have had a century to prepare for the effects of Hobus' explosion.

Unless it was a ''sub-space'' supernova!

Nothing in Countdown indicates that, but it might have been and the writers just couldn't communicate the point. Of course, they couldn't decide if the thing was a threat to the just the galaxy or the entire universe either, so who knows?

So was the destruction of the Hobus system a Gamma Ray Burst?

No. It's some effect which consumes matter and increases in power and scope as it does.

 

[NCC74894A]

In Countdown Spock explained that Hobus wasn't your garden-variety supernova. He never explained exactly what was different about Hobus, but my guess is that it had something to do with the abundance of decalithium/red matter in the system. Maybe there were also small amounts in the star itself? Not concentrated enough to ignite into a black hole, obviously, but perhaps still enough to have other nasty effects, like aggravating the effects of an otherwise normal supernova.

 

[DEWLine]

I can accept the subspace-transmitted side effects of a supernova. Simply ramp up the effect of what happened with Praxis by an order or two of magnitude.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

I thought that would post now versus a weeks ago.
Red Matter, short of being derived from decalithium(star trek:Countdown), has the property of converting a planetary object into a temporary wormhole?

Evidently it causes matter to collapse on itself, continuously feeding the collapse, until there is no more available matter to feed itself... at which point it just "winks out." Pretty much nonsense, I think... we've never seen any evidence that singularities every "go away" once created, nor is there any math supporting such a hypothesis.

How large/long is the new Enterprise?

Easily 150% the length of the "real" Enterprise... probably closer to 200%. I base this upon a number of factors, but the single most telling one is the shuttle-launch sequence... even if that bay fills the entire upper secondary hull, it would require a ship quite a bit larger than the original ship.

What speed can it attain(in TOS/TNG warp scale units)?

Totally unestablished... it went as fast as the writers wanted it to go (which, honestly, has been pretty much the case with ALL Star Trek, with the possible exception of TMP).

How could the Narada change the tech of the Constitution class ships so rapidly?

It couldn't. This was just an excuse for the folks doing the new movie to create "newer, kewler" versions of stuff because they didn't want to use what they already had to work with. (Whether they succeeded in creating something better... or failed miserably... is another topic for another conversation.)

How did the stardates before Nero's incursion become yyyy.ff?

Because that's what the guys doing this movie wanted them to be. There's no logic behind the change... it simply disregards the prior system and pretends it's explained without really justifying it. (Evidently, in Abrams' Trek universe, things are even MORE "Earth-centric," huh?)

 

[Lieut. Arex]

In Countdown Spock explained that Hobus wasn't your garden-variety supernova. He never explained exactly what was different about Hobus, but my guess is that it had something to do with the abundance of decalithium/red matter in the system. Maybe there were also small amounts in the star itself? Not concentrated enough to ignite into a black hole, obviously, but perhaps still enough to have other nasty effects, like aggravating the effects of an otherwise normal supernova.

Such an explanation would have helped since one of the triggers for a supernova is the collapse of a star into a black hole. It seems any decalithium/red matter might have tipped Hobus over the limit into such a collapse. If so, its effects would have been moderated by the black hole's pull... Nature would have executed Spock's plan for him.

DEWline, I'd say, certainly within the context of Trek physics, there are subspace effects associated with a supernova. I just don't buy galaxy-eating, getting bigger effects.

 

[Delta1]

In the first issue of Countdown, Spock predicts that the star will go supernova. In the third issue, the star unexpectedly goes nova, and this event precipitates the destruction of Romulus. Spock later admits he did not predict when the star would go nova.

So, did the star flare into a nova while everyone was waiting for a supernova, or are Orci and Kurtzman conflating novae with supernovae? The art is a bit unclear regarding which object in the Hobus system is which, so I haven't quite figured out what was going on there.

If it's not obvious, I haven't seen the movie yet, but feel free to spoil the physics.

Edit: Okay, I think the large white-orange disk is the Hobus star, and the broken rocky object is a planet--notwithstanding the juxtaposition of Ayel's dialogue with the screen image of the rocky object. That juxtaposition is what confused me.

The first stellar eruption annihilated the inmost planet (not seen) and obliterated the mining rig, but left the rocky planet largely intact. Notwithstanding the juxtaposition of Spock's dialogue with an illustration of the rocky object. There may or may not be a second star in the system feeding the first.

 

[Jimmy_C]

Yeah, which made no sense whatsoever. What natural forces could cause a supernova to propagate across space at FTL speeds? The Romulans should have had a century to prepare for the effects of Hobus' explosion.

Well here's the thing.

Let's say it was a GRB and was pointed at Romulus. You might not realize that the GRB was headed towards Romulus until it was too late. Say the star exploded 1000 years before Romulus was destroyed, but most of the energy was focused in the direction of where Romulus would be in 1000 years. The light would still take 1000 years to reach Romulus, but you might not notice it if no ships crossed the path of the beam as it was traveling through space. Romulan or Federation scientists might have known the star exploded, but not know the direction of the energy beam. When it got close enough to Romulan space, the beam could be detected by ships and colonies that it interacted with it. However, it could be very close - too close to make much of a difference.

So it is certainly possible that they knew the star exploded, but decided it was unlikely the beam was headed toward Romulus until it was too late. This could be even more possible since supernova remnants tend to be ejected from their initial positions with high velocities. They might not have been able to physically tell where the RGB would be headed.

I don't like the story of Countdown, but granted that comic was rushed. I also didn't really need the "yet another exploding planet" FX, but it was a cool shot so I forget them.

 

[Jimmy_C]

Potential spoilers in this post.............

Sounds like technobabble taken to a new, insane, level.

The more I think about this movie, the madder I get.

No. You are letting your emotions get the better of you. It was not focused on much. The only technobabble was "exploding the warp cores" to escape. I.E. A fantasy, technological solution to the problem.

The red matter was just part of the setting, not technobabble in itself. Otherwise it would have been called something like "pseudo-stable spacetime defect catylists" or something else like that. The red matter was no more technobabble than dilithium in Star Trek IV, trilithium in Star Trek VII, protomatter in Star Trek III, Omega molecules in Voyager, or any number of other made-up substances in Trek. Just part of the setting.

As for what the red matter itself was... I think it could be a particle that decays into inflatons - those particals that cause the expansion of spacetime? What if there were "reverse-inflatons" that caused a contractions of spacetime?

Since it creates a wormhole, it could create a large gravitational field in one end and a large "anti-gravitational field" at the other end. Or it might open up a wormhole near large gravitational sources (Nero came out near a star IIRC) that leak through the red-matter wormholes. Lots of possiblities...





























End spoilers.