Movie Picard and NuTrek Kirk

[IrishNero]

Why, oh why....do directors believe that killing off favorite characters somehow adds drama to a film or a show. We all have enough deaths in our lives just by virtue of living our lives! Data, Trip, Tasha... Dammit, just tell me that they were assigned to another post somewhere far away. Don't let me live with the anguish that Data was blown to bits!

 

[JoeZhang]

The reason Picard was "changed" in the movies is actually retrospectively a very interesting study. In Generations he was essentially TV Picard. He tried to talk Soren down as a first preference. But in First Contact, they turned him into this vengeful person. FC Picard is an action-hero because the script is an action-movie script.

This is where it gets interesting. When it came time to write Insurrection, the movie producers had a decision to make: the morally upright commander of the TV show, or the action-hero?

Not as much choice of the directors as you'd think - from reading around the topic, PS was bored by the time they made the film and preferred the action stuff so a lot of them is directly influenced by the actor.

 

[Ghrakh]

Why, oh why....do directors believe that killing off favorite characters somehow adds drama to a film or a show. We all have enough deaths in our lives just by virtue of living our lives! Data, Trip, Tasha... Dammit, just tell me that they were assigned to another post somewhere far away. Don't let me live with the anguish that Data was blown to bits!

Well, it's ST so there's always a way to bring them back.

Not as much choice of the directors as you'd think - from reading around the topic, PS was bored by the time they made the film and preferred the action stuff so a lot of them is directly influenced by the actor.

Which brings us to:

 

[IrishNero]

Well, it's ST so there's always a way to bring them back.

Data's dead forever and with the exception of 'Yesterday's Enterprise,' Yar never came back from the dead, as far as I know. Given the general popularity of Enterprise, Trip will probably be worm-food for a very long time too.

 

[Iamnotspock]

Which brings us to:

"I'm surprised it took them 360 years to bring back Top Gear, Mr. Worf, but I think I've got what it takes to be the new host."

 

[Phily B]

I didn't mind Movie Picard in First Contact because of the situation, but it was really really really grating in Nemesis.

 

[Cyke101]

Why, oh why....do directors believe that killing off favorite characters somehow adds drama to a film or a show. We all have enough deaths in our lives just by virtue of living our lives! Data, Trip, Tasha... Dammit, just tell me that they were assigned to another post somewhere far away. Don't let me live with the anguish that Data was blown to bits!

Tasha wasn't killed for dramatic reasons, hence why her death was so bland and uneventful. She was killed both because Denise Crosby wanted out, and TPTB were angry at her for wanting out.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Well, it's ST so there's always a way to bring them back.

Data's dead forever and with the exception of 'Yesterday's Enterprise,' Yar never came back from the dead, as far as I know. Given the general popularity of Enterprise, Trip will probably be worm-food for a very long time too.

In the novels, all except Tasha got better. Even Kirk.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I thought McFadden was awesome in the movies with what she was given.

"Once the captain has made his mind the discussion is over."

"Do a dance, tell a story, I don't care."

... AGREED!!!

 

[Makarov]

Not as much choice of the directors as you'd think - from reading around the topic, PS was bored by the time they made the film and preferred the action stuff so a lot of them is directly influenced by the actor.

I kind of doubt that... sounds like a rumor among fans. The movies are just generally action oriented rather than being diplomatic or exploration situations. I don't doubt that he was bored after years on TV but I don't think he would have that much impact on the story. It's not like Patrick Stewart wrote the things.

 

[Lance]

(As for Pine!Kirk, he's arguably just as much of a betrayal of the TOS Kirk character as the movie Picard was of TV Picard, but he's got the narrative excuse that he's not actually supposed to be exactly the same person anyway. Alternative universe Kirk, alternative universe character.)

NuKirk is really more of a "young Bennett/Meyerverse Kirk" crossed with "popculture Kirk".

I'd say that's a fair analysis. The Bennet/Meyerverse Kirk was already a somewhat specific reinterpretation of the character we saw in TOS anyway, exaggerating certain qualities while ignoring others, and the pop culture then cemented that retroactively despite whatever evidence TOS itself might have offered up. Which is where we're at with Pine!Kirk. It's like Pine!Kirk and TOSMovie!Kirk are the end result of different permutations of a forever evolving scientific formula, bonding one agent here and one agent there, to make a slightly different strain that is recognisable as the same guy, but somewhat different as well.

 

[Kor]

The last three TNG movies depict Picard's mid-life crisis, IMO.

As for our favourite characters dying... beloved people die in senseless and meaningless ways in real life, so I think it adds to the realism and makes it more poignant.

And with Trip on Enterprise,

Spoiler: the novelverse...

in the Enterprise novels, it turns out that his death was faked so he could be used in clandestine missions.

In Data's case, I think they made it pretty clear that he would basically "live on" through B5, or whatever that android is called.

Kor

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I'm just coming back to this thread...;(

Why, oh why....do directors believe that killing off favorite characters somehow adds drama to a film or a show. We all have enough deaths in our lives just by virtue of living our lives! Data, Trip, Tasha... Dammit, just tell me that they were assigned to another post somewhere far away. Don't let me live with the anguish that Data was blown to bits!

Games of Thrones does it so well....

The last three TNG movies depict Picard's mid-life crisis, IMO.

As for our favourite characters dying... beloved people die in senseless and meaningless ways in real life, so I think it adds to the realism and makes it more poignant.

And with Trip on Enterprise,

Spoiler: the novelverse...

in the Enterprise novels, it turns out that his death was faked so he could be used in clandestine missions.

In Data's case, I think they made it pretty clear that he would basically "live on" through B5, or whatever that android is called.

Kor

I wasn't a big fan of the character of Trip, so I'm cool with his death.

In regards to Picard, yes, that could be his mid-life crisis acting out. Usually, he was always depicted as a self-righteous, talky individual (i.e. boring). It would have been interesting to actually that explored in the films themselves but alas, these were the TNG films we're talking about. Good writing and acting and continuity wasn't the priority...just $$$$$$$$ from their niche audience.

I have to agree with the poster who brought out that nuKirk's depicted is based on the 'legend' of the character (i.e. fanon and what the public knows about the character). Albeit, with a bit more exaggeration. I'm surprised JJ Abrams didn't have nuKirk actually sleeping with a green woman (or women!)

 

[Autistoid]

I think of you guys are missing some key points.

Picard went through alot in TNG, being assimilated, his reunion with his brother in family, and developing a greater appreciation for his wild young self in Tapestry.

I don't think there is any surprise that the man was a changing character. He grew alot more than I think fans percieve.

Tapestry really establishes his character ark, combined with the death of jack crusher.

In season 1 Picard is very rigid, insecure with children likely in part to guilt caused by Crushers death.

Also keep in mind that PS was actually very much like Picard in season 1. Extremely obsessive about quality and professional performance. And PS has been quite open to how he went from being an uptight insecure man in season 1, to a very very open playboy after spending time in the US.

You have to remember this was a man that picked a fight with a nausican, had an ongoing relationship with a thief and criminal, caused the death of many federation citizens in wolf 359.

Not to mention all the illusions to mid(end of) life crisis, beginning with the death of his nephew, coming face to face with the borg, being under the influence of the planet in insurrection, and being near to the end of career(remember he was 74) in nemesis.


This ability to have a great deal of character change in life, is why picard is so fascinating, he's not just a preacher he's walked the walk and has a real ability to adapt to situations of life.

 

[Autistoid]

As far as nu kirk, its well established that he grew up an orphan.

To act like this wouldn't have an effect on someone seems to be socially irresponsible by the audience.

Just the same nu spock, lots his home world, he could no longer hide behind the excuse of being vulcan to be withdrawn from the life around him. In exactly the opposite context he had to interact because he was the last of his kind.

 

[Autistoid]

Well, it's ST so there's always a way to bring them back.

Data's dead forever and with the exception of 'Yesterday's Enterprise,' Yar never came back from the dead, as far as I know. Given the general popularity of Enterprise, Trip will probably be worm-food for a very long time too.

Malarky data may be dead, however depending on the time line, brent spiner is an even more valuable asset to trek then ever before.

Data may be dead but the Soong dynasty will live on forever.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Data's dead forever and with the exception of 'Yesterday's Enterprise,' Yar never came back from the dead, as far as I know. Given the general popularity of Enterprise, Trip will probably be worm-food for a very long time too.

Malarky data may be dead, however depending on the time line, brent spiner is an even more valuable asset to trek then ever before.

Data may be dead but the Soong dynasty will live on forever.

In terms of live action appearances, it doesn't seem likely that the 24th century is going to make any further appearances any time soon. And Brent Spiner is 66 years old. By the time they get around to doing anymore TNG (if they ever do), he almost certainly won't be a part of it - or, at best, will have a limited cameo such as Nimoy in the new films.

 

[Makarov]

Picard is actually pretty talky in Nemesis I noticed. Sure you have the dual phaser rifles and dune buggy stuff... but he does talk to Shinzon a lot and attempt to reason with him. I kinda wish they just expanded that and had Shinzon join up with Picard.