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More TOS engine room pics

I

Ian Simpson

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Hi guys.
A while back I posted my first ever TOS bride model and I was searching for plans to help.
I'm pleased to say that Will Smith has helped me out a lot with this and I thought you would like to see my progress.

I decided to make engineering as it appeared in the episode "That Which Survives" so that the room to the left as you go in to engineering is separate from the main room.

I still need to decide how to access the emergency manual monitor room and what the back wall looks like, (we did not see this in the show) also there are lettering on the walls in various places does anyone know if I can get any info on this?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfmfgbugn3lzaj7/HighresScreenshot00000.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nae7zf7ok3kl7ue/HighresScreenshot00001.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/twp8fxisxvtw4zo/HighresScreenshot00003.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ik1p3xf2zajt1o/HighresScreenshot00004.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q91zq2ni4ya0l0t/HighresScreenshot00005.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/klnksari2ftxv3d/HighresScreenshot00007.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8rifznvufwdfer1/HighresScreenshot00008.png

Please let know what you think so far it's been about 10 months today since I started to learn 3d modelling in 3d studio max, it's gone quick but I'm really enjoying it.
 
Very nice work, Ian! Especially considering the fact you started learning this only 10 months ago! One of these days I really need to learn 3D modelling myself. I have so many scribbles of ship ideas lying around which I would love to see realized. :sigh:

Coincidentally, @Donny did just finish the very area of engineering you have been working on over in his own thread.
 
Excellent after 10 months!

What is your aim in modeling these? Pretty pictures, games, printing?

The only reason I'm asking is that I see some segmentation, which is fine if you're modeling for games, but for pretty pictures of printing, you'll want to clear those up. Sorry, segmentation is my sworn enemy. ;)

Otherwise, these are VERY good!
 
Scribble said:
Excellent after 10 months!

What is your aim in modeling these? Pretty pictures, games, printing?

The only reason I'm asking is that I see some segmentation, which is fine if you're modeling for games, but for pretty pictures of printing, you'll want to clear those up. Sorry, segmentation is my sworn enemy. ;)

Otherwise, these are VERY good!
Click to expand...
hi m8 thanks for your comment however not sure what you mean, are you referring to certain meshes coming apart?
 
Segmentation is when you can see individual edges along the edge of a curved surface, as demostrated in this image:

2018-04-08.jpg


As I said, segmentation in anything other than gaming models is a bane of mine, but for games, it's a necessary evil.

The other thing I'm noticing in your renders is that you seem to have anti-aliasing turned off. By this, I mean that the edges of objects in your image are jaggy. If you turn on anti-aliasing in your renderer (scanline, VRay, Octane, etc.), your image will appear much more naturally as a photo rather than a computer image. This is different than segmentation in the model, itself, and applies to the entire image rather than a single object.

Please take my criticism as nothing other than trying to help you improve. As I said, what you have there is VERY impressive and I'd love to see more work from you. :)
 
Scribble said:
Segmentation is when you can see individual edges along the edge of a curved surface, as demostrated in this image:

2018-04-08.jpg


As I said, segmentation in anything other than gaming models is a bane of mine, but for games, it's a necessary evil.

The other thing I'm noticing in your renders is that you seem to have anti-aliasing turned off. By this, I mean that the edges of objects in your image are jaggy. If you turn on anti-aliasing in your renderer (scanline, VRay, Octane, etc.), your image will appear much more naturally as a photo rather than a computer image. This is different than segmentation in the model, itself, and applies to the entire image rather than a single object.

Please take my criticism as nothing other than trying to help you improve. As I said, what you have there is VERY impressive and I'd love to see more work from you. :)
Click to expand...

Hi thanks for taking the time to point this out I have looked at the mesh and it does look ugly so I have edited it there is a pic here https://www.dropbox.com/s/508jlnm7lpddum8/HighresScreenshot00006.png?dl=0

The stairs was made with a spline so it did need some post tlc which I overlooked it will keep me on my toes in future again thanks.
 
 
Last edited:
Looks nice! I like the addition of the computers in the upper level, gives people more of a reason to go up there
 
@Ian Simpson, I'm happy to see you're still on the project! And you've made some good progress, too! :techman:

FYI, I merged this new thread with your existing thread on the same subject. In the interest of keeping the forum from getting too cluttered, feel free to use this one for your next update. :)
 
This is a great start! And I can tell you've heavily used some of my images as reference. (I see you've copied my layout for the ceiling almost exactly). I'm flattered, but I also encourage you to use a little of your own creativity to add your own flair to some of things you can be flexible with, like the ceiling and other areas we never get a clear shot of.

A couple of accuracy-related things:
1) The font on the computer faces is actually Century Gothic. I suggest changing the font you have to that, as Century Gothic was used heavily throughout the sets and props, as well as a modified version of Helvetica (which was later used throughout TNG)

2) The ladder in the Emergency Manual Monitor appears to be a little too thin and the rungs seem too close together.

3) Your model of the small removable panel on the 2nd floor has curved corners, which stands out as odd because a) those removable panels were square-cornered and b) TOS styling of corners, with a few exceptions, is more square than rounded. Rounded corners became much more prevalent in TMP and TNG. It should be noted that the same style of removable panel was also used below each of the main engineering consoles, and in the Emergency Manual Monitor.

4) You've modeled the lights on the engineering consoles as flattened cones, and as far as I know, there were no lights of that shape on any of the consoles on the TOS sets. The resin jeweled lights on this particular console were all round. If this is adding your own flair, like I suggested above and is your prerogative, then disregard my comment.

It would seem your roughness values on some of the surfaces is a little too low, making them appear far too shiny and reflective (the door on the second level and the grey exterior of the stand-alone computers, for instance, looks very reflective). You're using Unreal engine for your final renderer, correct? If so, my advice is to always start at around 0.25 or 0.3 for a base roughness value and then tweak from there, and then adding an additional layer of roughness on top to add some variation, It can be attempting to make everything look reflective and shiny, but the reality is that in TOS a lot of the surfaces were more matte. There were exceptions, of course.

Other than that, for someone that's only been modeling for 10 months, you're doing some great work and you're paying attention to detail that others may not. Good job, and keep learning!
 
Donny said:
This is a great start! And I can tell you've heavily used some of my images as reference. (I see you've copied my layout for the ceiling almost exactly). I'm flattered, but I also encourage you to use a little of your own creativity to add your own flair to some of things you can be flexible with, like the ceiling and other areas we never get a clear shot of.

A couple of accuracy-related things:
1) The font on the computer faces is actually Century Gothic. I suggest changing the font you have to that, as Century Gothic was used heavily throughout the sets and props, as well as a modified version of Helvetica (which was later used throughout TNG)

2) The ladder in the Emergency Manual Monitor appears to be a little too thin and the rungs seem too close together.

3) Your model of the small removable panel on the 2nd floor has curved corners, which stands out as odd because a) those removable panels were square-cornered and b) TOS styling of corners, with a few exceptions, is more square than rounded. Rounded corners became much more prevalent in TMP and TNG. It should be noted that the same style of removable panel was also used below each of the main engineering consoles, and in the Emergency Manual Monitor.

4) You've modeled the lights on the engineering consoles as flattened cones, and as far as I know, there were no lights of that shape on any of the consoles on the TOS sets. The resin jeweled lights on this particular console were all round. If this is adding your own flair, like I suggested above and is your prerogative, then disregard my comment.

It would seem your roughness values on some of the surfaces is a little too low, making them appear far too shiny and reflective (the door on the second level and the grey exterior of the stand-alone computers, for instance, looks very reflective). You're using Unreal engine for your final renderer, correct? If so, my advice is to always start at around 0.25 or 0.3 for a base roughness value and then tweak from there, and then adding an additional layer of roughness on top to add some variation, It can be attempting to make everything look reflective and shiny, but the reality is that in TOS a lot of the surfaces were more matte. There were exceptions, of course.

Other than that, for someone that's only been modeling for 10 months, you're doing some great work and you're paying attention to detail that others may not. Good job, and keep learning!
Click to expand...
Thanks very much for taking the time to look at my work and make some suggestions I will implement them soon. I have been editing the two engineering panels when I realised that all the lights in the upper panels were inset (what a nightmare to do, for me anyway) I will post some more images after I've edited your suggestions and thanks again for taking the time to help. Ian
 
Hi TOS lovers
I've just finished another part of Engineering, this time I've done a route from the dilithium control room to the emergency manual monitor via a corridor based on the observation room seen in one episode.
I wanted to show the curvature of the secondary hull where I assume engineering is based.
Let me know your thoughts?
Regards
Ian
https://www.dropbox.com/s/shesmuqdk2d0kme/Wide.png?dl=0&m=
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dq0c16q1t86x8xi/HighresScreenshot00003.png?dl=0&m=
https://www.dropbox.com/home/tos observation pics?preview=HighresScreenshot00006.png
https://www.dropbox.com/home/tos observation pics?preview=HighresScreenshot00007.png
 
I really like the first two pics! For some reason, however, I can't see the third or fourth.

I think you've done a great job at coming up with your own area here, but I see again you've borrowed one of my own designs from my project: those light fixtures up top. We never saw those in TOS, and are almost exactly the same design I've come up with for my project. I admit mine were derived from the bit of the ceiling of the Season 1 engineering set we see in "The Enemy Within", but I find it a tad off-putting that you've lifted that design from my project. There isn't necessarily anything I can do about it and I don't have a ton of right to complain since both my project and your project are heavily derived from a body of work of people other than ourselves 50 years ago. And you're allowed to be influenced by whatever work you choose to be influenced by.

I do find it flattering, and I know you've e-mailed me saying that the fact that my project isn't available for download yet was the inspiration for you starting your own project, but I'm once again going to influence you to add your own flair to the things we don't see in TOS (just like you have with the rest of this area) instead of copying the exact creative flair that I've added to my project to make it uniquely mine. Or, at the very least, when you make posts, throw out a "I was influenced by Donny's design of the light fixtures", or "I'm following the design of Franz Joseph for this thing", etc. If you do borrow designs, be sure to give credit where credit is due.

Anyway, keep up the good work. I hope I haven't come off as too protective of my work. I just think, from one artist to another artist, we should endeavor to give deserved credit when we borrow ideas or rely on the research of others.
 
Last edited:
Ian Simpson said:
Hi TOS lovers
I've just finished another part of Engineering, this time I've done a route from the dilithium control room to the emergency manual monitor via a corridor based on the observation room seen in one episode.
I wanted to show the curvature of the secondary hull where I assume engineering is based.
Let me know your thoughts?
Regards
Ian
https://www.dropbox.com/s/shesmuqdk2d0kme/Wide.png?dl=0&m=
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dq0c16q1t86x8xi/HighresScreenshot00003.png?dl=0&m=
https://www.dropbox.com/home/tos observation pics?preview=HighresScreenshot00006.png
https://www.dropbox.com/home/tos observation pics?preview=HighresScreenshot00007.png
Click to expand...
Those last 2 images are dead for me too

I like how you're taking inspiration from existing sets. The original was an "observation room" rather than a corridor, but this is a good extrapolation, especially if you're trying to make sense of the myriad of windows on the Engineering Hull!
 
Hi Donny

Firstly I do hope that you are not annoyed with me as a great admirer of your work that is the last thing I would want. I fell the need to say how the lights in engineering came about.

When I started the engine room I needed some light fittings so I designed my own however after a few weeks someone sent me a pic of Kirk on the power converter, so I changed them, then it seemed "logical" to shrink the size down for different areas of the ship. The ones
I have made are separate simple boxes with a moiré effect created in Surface designer. I did it this way because I didn't want to re-work the ceiling support beams which I made from the drawings very kindly e-mailed to me from Will Smith (Star trek continues) yours and the show look as if they are built in around the support beams. There was never any intention of using your personal light fitting designs.

I am not a cgi artist by any means, this is just a hobby my job is a musician and producer / arranger and attention to detail is paramount in my job also and it would apply in anything I do. In my line of work there are people that I aspire to, Richard Carpenter, Trevor Horn, Phil Spector are amongst the top of my list. I count you amongst them for this line of work. I am very difficult to impress and very few do.

You have set a president as to what can be done with 3dsMax and unreal so with that in mind I, and others refer to your work as the standard in which to aspire to, you have set the bar to witch a lot of people admire and follow.

I hope this has not put us at a bad footing I just wanted to clear this up.

Donny said:
I really like the first two pics! For some reason, however, I can't see the third or fourth.

I think you've done a great job at coming up with your own area here, but I see again you've borrowed one of my own designs from my project: those light fixtures up top. We never saw those in TOS, and are almost exactly the same design I've come up with for my project. I admit mine were derived from the bit of the ceiling of the Season 1 engineering set we see in "The Enemy Within", but I find it a tad off-putting that you've lifted that design from my project. There isn't necessarily anything I can do about it and I don't have a ton of right to complain since both my project and your project are heavily derived from a body of work of people other than ourselves 50 years ago. And you're allowed to be influenced by whatever work you choose to be influenced by.

I do find it flattering, and I know you've e-mailed me saying that the fact that my project isn't available for download yet was the inspiration for you starting your own project, but I'm once again going to influence you to add your own flair to the things we don't see in TOS (just like you have with the rest of this area) instead of copying the exact creative flair that I've added to my project to make it uniquely mine. Or, at the very least, when you make posts, throw out a "I was influenced by Donny's design of the light fixtures", or "I'm following the design of Franz Joseph for this thing", etc. If you do borrow designs, be sure to give credit where credit is due.

Anyway, keep up the good work. I hope I haven't come off as too protective of my work. I just think, from one artist to another artist, we should endeavor to give deserved credit when we borrow ideas or rely on the research of others.
Click to expand...
 
Then it may be a case of great minds thinking alike ;) Sounds like your train of thought in designing the light fixtures was very similar to mine.

Going back over my images, I’ve showed my light fixtures in only a few of my shots (and in some of them it was just a small glimpse or a portion). My apologies. I saw your light fixture and because it was exactly the same as my design, and because you’re such a close examiner of my work, I assumed you’d borrowed the design without asking or giving credit.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. No harm, no foul.
 
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