More TNG

[2takesfrakes]

STAR TREK: The Next Generation
7 Seasons on Television. 4 motion pictures. This has always seemed rather meager to me, as the series had potential for so much more. The popularity of TNG during its initial run would've justified continuing the show's run for a decade, at least, had the draw of trading television for the movies not offered so much appeal. I am of the opinion that had TNG stayed on TV for longer, that not only would we have more episodes, but it might've actually benefitted the movies, as well. We might've even gotten more of them, eventually, and of even better quality - especially under Jonathan Frakes' expert direction. Do you feel that TNG realised its potential, or were there more possibilities? Could there have been "More TNG"?

 

[Triskelion]

The 7th season of TNG was getting long in the tooth with about half the episodes.

Hard to see it going up from there.

As a fan though, none of the movies really did it for me. So a quantity of more stories may have produced something better to remember each character by.

I love the show though, and will be grateful for whatever I can get. Though I admit to not having bothered with the last 2 superhero films.

 

[OtherGene]

I'd like to think that if the burgeoning movie careers of some of the cast, and by "some" I mean Patrick Stewart, and the increasing cost of paying the actors could be ignored there was more TNG to do perhaps after a break of a few years maybe. I think I'd probably be happy to keep watching TNG forever as I've invested so much in the characters over the years. But TV changes and a continuing TNG would be faced with the choice of either staying the same and appearing out of touch and old fashioned or changing with the times and becoming something different, something perhaps not like TNG and causing upset with die-hard fans like me.

 

[JesterFace]

Season 8 would've been better than all the movies combined, but somehow somewhere I got the feeling that TNG ended after season 7 partially because DS9 came along. Maybe VGR too, I don't know...

But in all honesty, TNG got weaker towards the end, so maybe it was time.

 

[BillJ]

Already not much watchable in seasons six and seven. I tend to think the movies would've done better if the show had been pulled after season five and allowed some time for fans to miss it.

Always leave on a high note...

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[Greg Cox]

Seven years is a good long run. TOS only ran for three. The original TWILIGHT ZONE only ran for five. The original BATMAN tv series only ran for three seasons. BUFFY only ran for seven seasons. XENA only ran for six seasons. BABYLON-FIVE only ran for for five seasons. FARSCAPE only ran for for four seasons. THE 4400 only ran for four seasons. Etc.

Most shows would kill to run for seven whole season, plus four movies!

 

[2takesfrakes]

TNG transcends most science fiction programming. Comparisons are, perhaps, a bit unfair. The Next Generation movies, however ...

The features stepped off on the wrong foot, unfortunately, by the inclusion of The Shat. I mean, come on ... his dying on A bridge, instead of THE bridge was just too twee. The success of First Contact should've been the start of more daring stories in the film series. More technical achievements in the area of FX, as well. But the desire to recapture the charm and appeal of TNG's television days prevented that. That mindset worked for TOS, because the budgets were so reduced. TNG really should've pushed the envelope and it just fell back on its past achievements. Had Generations been a "TNG movie," I believe that's just what would've happened ...

 

[Lance]

TNG transcends most science fiction programming. Comparisons are, perhaps, a bit unfair. The Next Generation movies, however ...

The features stepped off on the wrong foot, unfortunately, by the inclusion of The Shat. I mean, come on ... his dying on A bridge, instead of THE bridge was just too twee. The success of First Contact should've been the start of more daring stories in the film series. More technical achievements in the area of FX, as well. But the desire to recapture the charm and appeal of TNG's television days prevented that. That mindset worked for TOS, because the budgets were so reduced. TNG really should've pushed the envelope and it just fell back on its past achievements. Had Generations been a "TNG movie," I believe that's just what would've happened ...

I have been working for a while on compiling together my own "Shatner-less" edit of Generations . Even re-editting it as a regular episode, complete with TV show titles and end credits. For an added bit of authenticity, I've even gone back to the VHS tape, so as to get the movie in an authentic 4:3 pan and scan format (which better matches with the TV show.)

The biggest problem I've found so far is in the severe lack of model shots of the 1701-D in the movie. The TV show often used orbital shots of the ship in order to 'paper over' jumps in time within the narrative, but the movie has got almost no such shots. Only one approach to the Armagosa station, a warp away from said station, and a ragtag bunch of others either blown up from the TV show or during the battle sequence. I've had to delve into the series, DS9 and Voyager to try and scramble together a few more shots of the Galaxy Class to help fill out sections where I've made edits.

Aside from that, it's been relatively simple to remove Shatner from the movie. I used Worf's promotion scene as the pre-titles 'teaser', and while one mention of Kirk remains (the scene where Crusher fills in Soran's backstory), the movie loses absolutely nothing in not actually seeing the Enterprise B bits. The final confrontation with Soran is a bit choppy-changey, having to connect the 'first ' & 'second' sequences of Picard confronting him on the surface of the planet together into a single piece and cut out any shots of Shatner, but I achieved that mostly by playing with the running order and intercutting it with the Enterprise crash landing. In this version Picard never enters the Nexus and he still defeats Soran by locking the clamps on the missile.

My original hope was to somehow create an "alternative ending" where the D isn't destroyed, perhaps using the audio tracks of Patrick Stewart and Malcolm McDowell from the videogame where just such an ending is possible, and maybe using stock footage of the D fighting Klingon ships to satisfactorily avoid going to the surface of Veridian III at all, but alas I haven't yet figured out exactly how to do that without it leaving the ending feeling anticlimactic.

 

[Triskelion]

Have you considered blowing it up? Blowing it up real good?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Admittedly, all of this is crying over spilt milk. Even a Fan Edit doesn't change that fact. But I'm curious what Generations might've been like sans The Classic Series elements. At the same time those elements did bring with them a certain level of interest. For example, Sulu's daughter Demora was very beautiful and so sweet, I thought she was quite wonderful. I liked certain other aspects, but those were very superficial, when it came to the 23rd Century stuff. Rather than offering a future for the TNG movies, Generations seems to have been determined to derail the series, instead. I'm confident that First Contact would've done even better business, had it not been for this awkward first step ...

 

[Lance]

What my attempts to remove Kirk from the narrative did prove to me is just how little importance he has in the movie. William Shanter has famously said that his first impression of Ron Moore and Branon Braga's script was that he didn't think Kirk was "integral" to the story being told, and although Moore and Braga subsequently rewrote the script, I still don't think they ever solved that problem. Sure he has got some nominal role in the finale, but it truly isn't anything that couldn't have been written about any generic character, certainly not worthy of Captain Kirk. Shatner was right: he isn't integral to the script, in fact he's barely little more than a plot device (if anything the need to shoehorn Kirk into the story detracts rather than enhances proceedings.)

 

[2takesfrakes]

The desire to include The Shat is what caused ALL of Generation's problems. It's not the Nexus, it's not the rewrites, it's having him there at all that's the problem. It doesn't work. It can't work. Mark Lenard's wonderful performance as Sarek was the only crossover that worked in TNG. Nimoy and Doohan's entries were abysmal. And yet ... TNG kept dipping into the TOS well, anyway. Even DeForest Kelley's cameo in the TNG pilot was forced. But because it evokes this granddad vibe, it's got some charm to it. Outside of that, Gene Roddenberry's initial instincts were absolutely correct that TNG needed to distance itself from TOS, as far as possible. Voyager, though, to me ... felt the most like 'The Adventure Continues ..." for TNG. Kind of like the 2nd side of the same saga, but even then, no ... it wasn't the same show. The need for more TNG went unfulfilled ...

 

[Lance]

I do sometimes think moving the TNG cast to the big screen killed the golden goose, so to speak. That show had gone from strength to strength on TV, and one wonders if the studio's desire to avoid having to renegotiate the pay rates per episode of the long standing cast was really a good enough reason for ending it and shuffling them off to the big screen. I also agree with you that Generations, desiring to "pass the torch" when said torch-passing really wasn't necessary, also lost the TNG movie series a lot of momentum. First Contact hit the ground running with a really stellar 'first' movie for the TNG crew, but it'd already been 2 years since they'd left TV screens by that point, and Joe Public may have had cause to only half-remember them already.

 

[Thorsman]

Personally, I think there's a fair possibility of the Kelvin universe films incorporating some TNG character appearances. Not to say it's a good idea or a bad one, but I could easily a lot of ways that Picard might show up, or even a CG motion-cap Data.

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

Do you feel that TNG realised its potential, or were there more possibilities?

I would say both, because I view the movies and TV show differently. TNG the TV show had run its course. For me, with a mediocre at best 7th season, it was clear that the show was waning. The movie franchise was a big missed opportunity to breathe life back into it.

Could there have been "More TNG"?

If they had tried to do a season 8, you would've seen the ratings start to really crater - especially if Voyager went ahead. There's general agreement that around the time that TNG ended, Trek was already over-saturated with Generations, DS9, and Voyager pre-production already underway. Continuing the show I think only makes that worse.

I'm glad it ended when it did - not because I wanted to see it end, necessarily - but because not ending it would have been worse for its legacy.

 

[Leviathan]

...I suppose they could have tacked on a couple seasons of animated adventures. That's worked well right?

(I'll show myself out)

 

[suarezguy]

7 Seasons on Television. 4 motion pictures. This has always seemed rather meager to me, as the series had potential for so much more. The popularity of TNG during its initial run would've justified continuing the show's run for a decade, at least, had the draw of trading television for the movies not offered so much appeal.

5 or 6, let alone 7, years on television is a solid, long-enough run especially with the actors and writers arguably becoming less interested in the characters near the end, but the show wasn't very well suited for movies. It would have been better to just start a new spinoff series, as happened, but also make fewer movies while that was running.
It seems to me that most shows that run around 10 years are sitcoms or procedurals which didn't have very ambitious types of stories to begin with so its easier to not loose steam with them or come to natural ending points earlier.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I have to agree about STAR TREK's burden of having to be "topical." at least, if not relevant and having to keep finding new ways to investigate and explore The Human Condition. Other shows can get away with just making jokes about Real Life predicaments and just keep that going. As well, Sir Patrick Stewart who worked the hardest, perhaps, on the show - out of all of the cast - was clearly bored, by the time the movies came.

The character, fortunately, had already been established as a sort of Bad Boy, in his day. So, seeing Captain Picard becoming more of an Action Hero isn't as painfully embarassing as it might have been otherwise. Unfortunately, some of his ideas in that direction didn't really add to the entertainment value. It was more about "giving the baby its bottle," as it were.

Still in all, had the movies not been dangling above TNG's head like a carrot over a donkey, the series would've had plenty of life left in it for another 3 years. And when the movies did come along, they probably would've benefitted from not having such a weak start as Generations proved to be.