Money Or No Money In The Federation?

[Farscape One]

There has been contradictory dialogue across the various shows about there being no money in the late 23rd and the 24th century. From Picard telling Lily there is none in FIRST CONTACT to Nog calling Jake out on abandoning currency based economics in DS9's "IN THE CARDS".

But what is the real story? Surely Earth would need some kind of way to conduct transactions across the Federation. And even if the Federation didn't use money, other entities still did. Gold pressed latinum, for example.

I doubt a simple barter system is the answer. We see Dax, O'Brien, and Bashir use latinum on DS9. Did they get it using some kind of credit reimbursement system for being officers on a starbase not in Federation space?

Let's try to sift through the various shows and figure it out.


Temba, his arms open.

 

[camdudetenger2018]

There has been contradictory dialogue across the various shows about there being no money in the late 23rd and the 24th century. From Picard telling Lily there is none in FIRST CONTACT to Nog calling Jake out on abandoning currency based economics in DS9's "IN THE CARDS".

But what is the real story? Surely Earth would need some kind of way to conduct transactions across the Federation. And even if the Federation didn't use money, other entities still did. Gold pressed latinum, for example.

I doubt a simple barter system is the answer. We see Dax, O'Brien, and Bashir use latinum on DS9. Did they get it using some kind of credit reimbursement system for being officers on a starbase not in Federation space?

Let's try to sift through the various shows and figure it out.


Temba, his arms open.

in star trek 4 when captain james tiberius kirk and his crew time traveled to the past he mentioned to spock that the people in the past still use money

which means in the future there is no money anymore

 

[BK613]

Probably meant cash.

Let's try to sift through the various shows and figure it out.

Here's three that popped into my head (via chakoteya.net)

Star Trek II:
CAROL: The reformed moon simulated here represents the merest fraction of the Genesis potential, should the Federation wish to fund these experiments to their logical conclusion.

Star Trek III:
McCOY: Somewhere in the Mutara Sector.
ALIEN: Oh. Mutara restricted. Take permits many. Money, more.
McCOY: There aren't going to be any damn permits! How can you get a permit to do a damn illegal thing? Look, price you name, money I got.
ALIEN: Place you name, money I name. Otherwise, bargain, no.

Star Trek VI:
KIRK: What are we doing here?
McCOY: Maybe they're throwing us a retirement party.
SCOTT: That suits me. I just bought a boat.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The Federation has no money that is a commodity , like gold.

 

[Set Harth]

which means in the future there is no money anymore

they spent it all on the special effects.

 

[BillJ]

There has been contradictory dialogue across the various shows about there being no money in the late 23rd and the 24th century. From Picard telling Lily there is none in FIRST CONTACT to Nog calling Jake out on abandoning currency based economics in DS9's "IN THE CARDS".

But what is the real story? Surely Earth would need some kind of way to conduct transactions across the Federation. And even if the Federation didn't use money, other entities still did. Gold pressed latinum, for example.

I doubt a simple barter system is the answer. We see Dax, O'Brien, and Bashir use latinum on DS9. Did they get it using some kind of credit reimbursement system for being officers on a starbase not in Federation space?

Let's try to sift through the various shows and figure it out.


Temba, his arms open.

Yes.

 

[Toril Toran]

In the online game the characters are issued energy credits. Which they can use directly or exchange into Latinum art one of the conveniently located machines

 

[Farscape One]

In the online game the characters are issued energy credits. Which they can use directly or exchange into Latinum art one of the conveniently located machines

For purposes of being consistent across all subjects in the franchise, I never count things outside an episode or movie. (Like novels, comics, games, etc.) And while there are instances when, for example, a novel will inspire a tv or movie writer and make what the novel said official on screen (Uhura and Sulu's first names were in novels long before they were spoken on screen, for instance), it doesn't make those secondary materials a good source for what's said or seen on screen.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Mu.

 

[FredH]

In the online game the characters are issued energy credits. Which they can use directly or exchange into Latinum art one of the conveniently located machines

I’ve never played STO, but at first glance that does sound like a possible way to square it. There’s no “money” (in the Federation), but there does have to be a way to measure and apportion resource application — and a literal measuring of the energy involved in any such might be a way to do it (and neatly explain “Federation credits” and funding/buying/salaries).

 

[MurphyCooper]

I think they have money. Just not in the form that we know today.

 

[BillJ]

For purposes of being consistent across all subjects in the franchise, I never count things outside an episode or movie. (Like novels, comics, games, etc.)

I count whatever makes sense.

 

[Lord Garth]

I just re-watched "Business As Usual" (DS9) yesterday. Quark leads Hageth, Cousin Gaila, and a client of theirs into a phaser fight with enemies of said client. Quark high-tails it out of there. Odo goes after them. Not the point of this post. The point is this: after the dust settles, Sisko hands Quark the bill for the damages done to the section of the station where everyone was shooting. Quark offers to pay in installments and Sisko accepts.

Ordinarily, this could be read as Quark making payments to the Federation. But, in Sisko's own words in "Emissary": "This is still a Bajoran station, we're simply here to administrate." This is reinforced throughout the series. Which means that technically Quark is really making payments to Bajor, that Sisko simply happens to be handling.

So, there was almost a clear-cut example of a character (Quark) having to pay the Federation but, on account of a technicality, it turns out not to be the case.

Heading into the final third of the fifth season of DS9, I'm still fuzzy on Federation Economics. Granted, they kept things intentionally fuzzy.

 

[HotRod]

TOS makes multiple references to "earning your pay for the week." We also see Cyrano Jones and the bartender haggling over the price of a tribble on Deep Space Station K-7, a Federation facility. I believe the term "credits" is even used. They clearly had some form of currency, whatever shape it may have taken.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Here's my personal head canon take, the Federation Credits that we see & hear about, it's all a form of digital fiat currency.
That's why Federation Credits exist.

The UFP wasn't able to solve counterfeiting of physical currency due to the "Replicator Revolution" that happened soon after the formation of the Federation, so they gave up on physical currency & went with all digital.

One of the side effects of UFP controlling all the currency was the absolute power over peoples lives that digital only currency had, while that pissed off many folks who didn't like the lack of financial privacy, there wasn't much that can be done since counterfeiting via replicator was getting out of hand at that time.

The Ferengi and their Latinum based physical currency wasn't encountered until much later into the UFP's existence, several centuries after digital was the norm.

Even then, many within the UFP bureaucracy would be skeptical of Latinum based currency despite it being non replicable, they have a huge distrust of something they can't directly control due to the centuries of having absolute control over the currency system via a digital only currency system.

Since the Ferengi joined the UFP in a Lower Decks episode, it'll be a new internal conflict between digital fiat currency and physical materials based currency standards, similar to the old Earth's "Gold Standard" that lasted many centuries in the past.

 

[Toril Toran]

Since the Ferengi joined the UFP in a Lower Decks episode, it'll be a new internal conflict between digital fiat currency and physical materials based currency standards, similar to the old Earth's "Gold Standard" that lasted many centuries in the past.

I still think energy credits are issued, according to need (space communism) to provide food, clothing, and needs from the replicator.
(Raffi seemed a bit embarrassed when she met Picard because of her sparse accommodations.)

Not sure about that. Couldn’t Ferengi still use credits within the Federation, and Latinum outside the Federation?

 

[F. King Daniel]

How does Picard live in a huge mansion, Pike and Kirk had a lovely homes, but Raffi lives in a space trailer?

I'm reminded of the Shatnerverse novels, where Kirk is resurrected after Generations and keeps asking how the no-money thing works (with the caveat here being "no money" in Star Trek IV is ignored). He asks why he can't just go to a nicer apartment and claim it, or just take a ship from a dry dock but the conversation is always inturrupted just as Spock or McCoy are about to explain it.

Also, according to Voyager money vanished mid-22nd century, which means there's a good chance the NX-01 crew were paid.

 

[Set Harth]

Pike and Kirk had a lovely homes

its-a me, Mario!

 

[Detached Nacelle]

How does Picard live in a huge mansion, Pike and Kirk had a lovely homes, but Raffi lives in a space trailer?

Prefab structure of her own choosing, possibly even construction so she can live off the grid.

Her trailer is nicer than anywhere I've ever lived.

Picard's mansion is obviously family property that has been passed down and the family use it to provide a service as well which they don't charge for so it isn't like rich people hoarding their money in their mansions like they do in this day and age.

The Federation obviously doesn't use money and people are just less selfish so don't feel an overwhelming need for fortune like people today. When you can have anything you want from replicators you don't feel that sense of envy of others and the feeling of materialistic absence.

There is the question of how Federation citizens initially acquire the currency they need to barter with societies that do still have money. Latinum and darseks have to come from somewhere because Federation citizens will start with none and nothing to offer for them.

 

[Turtletrekker]

There are obviously financial mechanisms in place for dealings with other cultures and societies, independent traders and probably even luxuries as well (Scotty's "I just bought a boat." In ST6 and Crusher's "Charge it to Dr Crusher" in Farpoint. Anytime a Starfleet officer has a drink at Quark's). But within the Federation itself, food clothing, shelter and basic necessities are not things that become financial concerns for anyone.