Modern Day Society- Male Dating Issues

[Mr Silver]

I'm a big fan of the Internet, I try and use it as much as I can while still getting on with my own life, its as much a tool for knowledge and socialising as most things in real life...however

I've noticed in the last couple of years a massive surge of guys posting on messageboards, etc their problems with dating, more specifically the facts that they "Can't get a Girlfriend"..

Now I'm not criticising, because I know first hand what its like to feel that theres something wrong with you because you haven't had a Girlfriend (there isn't anything wrong with it, by the way), its not a problem for me anymore, but I know how it feels to have been 18 and never even kissed a girl...i'm older now and things worked out for me, I can't really explain how and what I did, just I stopped worrying about it and got out more

Anyway...The things that trouble me are the expectations of some people, I'm still young (early 20's) and I'm under the impression that a lot of guys feel that looks are the most important thing to girls their age.

Now i've done some looking (and a lot at that ) and stumbled upon this "Love Shy" term, which colloquially applies to guys who've never had a relationship or have very little experience, after checking it out and reading some peoples opinions i've noticed that the most common things that LS guys say that puts women off them is

*Weight (either underweight or overweight)
*Lack of Experience (eg, being a virgin)
*Ethnic Background
*Lack of Confidence
*Having diverse interests that don't interest the mass majority of people (Star Trek anyone? )

Now neither of those things have ever bothered me about women, but i'm pretty different I think, I mean they way someone looks has never bothered me, If I like a girl, I like her, not because shes chubby, a virgin, is Oriental, doesn't like big crowds and enjoys making models of famous buildings

So I guess i'm just asking for some help to understand this phenomenon and maybe we can all share some useful information

 

[auntiehill]

^Anyone, either male or female, who goes out in the world with a list of demands for a potential mate is going to be sorely disappointed.

When I met hubby, he didn't really fit my "list" at all, but he still turned out to be the perfect guy for me.

Someone who fits your list of requirements (or demands, really. that is what it comes down to) could very well be a jerk, or simply not be interested in you at all. It's best to just meet people who have similar values, interests or attitudes. Anything else can be worked around.

 

[Jetfire]

I think you have to be open...look for the best in a person and do not build up an image that is an unreasonable expectation.

It's best to just meet people who have similar values, interests or attitudes. Anything else can be worked around.

 

[Mr Silver]

I agree, unless your a celebrity constantly in the public eye, creating list of demands for a potential mate is just asking for disappointment...

But why should you care what someone looks like?

Fair enough I think looks come into the equation for people when they envision having sex, but real "sex" isn't dependant on physically attractive qualities at all...as far as I know, But could a woman envision herself having sex with a guy who is overweight, has "moobs" and who is quite hairy while can a guy envision himself having sex with a girl who is "overweight, doesn't have the pornography enforced "DV" and also is a bit hairy?

 

[Crewman47]

I'm going to be the first in here to jump in and admit that I come under the "love shy" group, basically becuase of the whole no experience/lack of confidence problem I have. There are other issues I have with my life, like financial and personal that I wouldn't or couldn't share in a relationship.

I do have to say though that there is one girl at work that I did ask out about 3 years ago to the cinema but it didn't go too well and we decided to just be friends but I still think of trying to ask her out again but I can never pick up the confidence to do it even though I jokingly mention to her that I probably would in conversation.

I guess until I do manage to turn my life around I might remain the way I am and end up a 40+ year old virgin, which is only 11 years away.

 

[sidious618]

Physical attraction is important to me. If I find the person ugly I'm simply not going to go out with them. However, tastes so vary that my "God, her?!" is someone else's "Hell, yes!"

 

[Mr Silver]

I'm going to be the first in here to jump in and admit that I come under the "love shy" group, basically becuase of the whole no experience/lack of confidence problem I have. There are other issues I have with my life, like financial and personal that I wouldn't or couldn't share in a relationship.

I do have to say though that there is one girl at work that I did ask out about 3 years ago to the cinema but it didn't go too well and we decided to just be friends but I still think of trying to ask her out again but I can never pick up the confidence to do it even though I jokingly mention to her that I probably would in conversation.

I guess until I do manage to turn my life around I might remain the way I am and end up a 40+ year old virgin, which is only 11 years away.

I can understand man, really

Rejection is a big deal for guys, I mean a lot of us won't admit it, but it really knocks your self esteem for six...Theres a lot of misunderstanding between men and women in general, as a guy with other guys in general you've gotta behave like polar opposites to women...even though deep down you still have feelings and get hurt when relationships don't turn out as you'd have hoped

 

[Jetfire]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder & if your personality sucks...then it doesn't matter what you look like...you either attract a mate or you will and the relationship will be short lived.

Having your life together is important too...if you are a mess...then all you are gonna attract is a mess.

 

[Jetfire]

Physical attraction is important to me. If I find the person ugly I'm simply not going to go out with them. However, tastes so vary that my "God, her?!" is someone else's "Hell, yes!"

As I said beauty is in the eye of the beholder...what I find attractive...someone else might not...I have seen this.

 

[Mr Silver]

I think its pretty harsh to even call someone ugly, what I consider ugly is more or less something in the adjective sense, such as cutting up the countryside to build factories or when applied to someone, its someone who enjoys making peoples lives a misery, thats what makes someone an ugly person, not what they look like, but what they do

The only thing that really gets to me is personal hygiene, if someone doesn't wash and prefers to be a mess, like they don't care for cleaning, etc, then thats a turn off for me

 

[Amaris]

The major reason behind most male dating issues is, I would say, a serious lack of self confidence. Men put women on a pedestal and keep them there in good times and bad, and these women become unreachable, and soon, most women become unreachable because the male's self confidence spirals downward.

The best approach is to not set expectations too high. Some are common sense, like hygiene and disposition. After that, keep your heart and mind open. Also keep in mind that, in general, women love a nice guy, but many of these women also want a guy who will stand up for himself. When you are complimented, don't go "who me? I'm ugly". Instead, say something like "thank you, you look rather good yourself." Accept the compliment and give one in return. This indicates that you accept her judgement value and have also taken interest in her. Women want to feel wanted, and they want you to feel wanted. Your self worth is only important for yourself and the person in whom you are interested. That's it.

Take it one step at a time, but have the self confidence to get out there and try. What's the worst that can happen? She says no? Well, yeah, that's it. She can say no, and so you move on. If she's not interested, she's not interested, but I'll tell you right now, most women can smell desperation on a guy like so much cheap cologne. She can usually tell when your confidence is false. You know what is likely to happen if you get the interest of a girl? She's going to start liking you, and the warm progression of emotions will mean she will look past any of your perceived faults.

Put more succinctly, gentlemen; if you feel it is that important to succeed at dating, you're going to have to do more than pine quietly for lost lovers you will never have.

You want to go on a date? You want romance? You want sex? You have to pursue it. Engage yourself into the situation, don't sit passively by. No one likes the guy who complains about the game when he won't even try to play it.

 

[Jetfire]

^
Very good J.

 

[Shikarnov]

I think J is definitely onto the heart of the matter: confidence. I've always been a heavy guy -- and by heavy, I really mean fat (and not a little) -- but never had issues getting girlfriends. I think men get a lot of initial credit for just having the balls to ask -- which, of course, gives us the time we need to shine in other ways.

I actually think confidence is a key factor in many areas of life. I recall a conversation with my grandfather -- one of our last conversations, sadly -- in which I was lamenting all my negatives and using them as a reason not to ask out some girl. His advice was very different than my single mother's advice (which was to prop me up and tell me all I have to offer a girl). My grandfather, a forty-year police veteran, pragmatically told me "Go ask her. If she says no, what changes for you? Nothing. But if she says yes..." he let his voice drag off and winked at me with a lopsided smile.

His words never managed to remove my fear, but they gave me just enough strength to continue forward in spite of it. After all, I really hadn't anything to lose by asking the girl out -- or by going for that big job, or starting a business, or getting involved with my community government, or any of hundreds of other situations in which my instinct is to be reclusive.

 

[Cheapjack]

My insight is that these loveshy people think, if they hold off, and remain pure, the sex will be so much better when they finally get it. They might even do that thing called 'making love'.

My God.

My experience is to suss people out thoroughly, talk to as many people as possible, and try to make it work. Cos, some people are absolutely revolting, mentally, spiritually, and physically. Though, at least it happened and some pleasure from pleasuring was achieved.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

If I may be so bold as to outline my problems in this field . I suffer from one of the biggest and most frustrating curses in any search for a "girlfriend"; namely, women tend to naturally like me, and I them. That doesn't sound like a problem, I know, but it is . Because, put simply, most women (and probably men too) have different ideas as to what makes a good mate than they do a good friend. An odd distinction in my eyes - one would think if you plan to spend much of your time with someone, a working friendship is the place to start - but there you are. The fact of it is, once you slip into friendship or an easy working relationship, courtship slips away as a possibility to most people, because the sense of "otherness" is gone. Humans like the idea of man and woman as two essentially incompatable opposites that nevertheless fit together naturally- yin and yang I suppose. That's why men court women by playing up their masculinity and women by playing up femininity. They both put on an act. And part of women playing up femininity is clouding themselves in an aura of unknowable "otherness", a "feminine charm". Man and woman work together to create that pedestal that's been mentioned. Put in a very over-simplified way (so excuse me), women expect men to respond to the alluring "otherness" of the woman and men expect that she will cloak herself thus. And if either doesn't wear the mask and conform to those behaviours, they don't give off the signals as a potential courtship partner. It's not enough to be simply male or female- you must announce and affirm your "manliness" or "womanliness".

I've had many experiences talking with girls and women of my age - friends - when it's become clear that they are momentatily forgetting that I am not a woman. Of course, I don't mean that they're suddenly thinking I am a woman, I mean their attitude and speech shows that they simply aren't relating to me as a "man"- as "the compatible opposite sex which is to be potentially courted". Now, I'm not saying I want them to court me, or that I'm disappointed they're not, but it's telling how easily I disappear from the radar when I don't behave in a "masculine" manner. In their eyes, I am "friend" or "colleague" or "that person I know". And "man" is not a category that is compatible with that. Oh, sure, I'm male, they know that, but I am not "man". That's the issue, you see- they still perceive the world of friendship webs and community as female, even when it isn't. Because I fit into that web, I am - not consciously, I'm sure- gendered female even though I am obviously male. The masculine is an "other", an opposite, something distinct and odd but naturally seductive (and it's the same the other way round). Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. That there are both sexes on both planets is beside the point. These girls are looking for their Martian, not another Venusian.

So there's the problem. I relate to women and men the same; as friends, colleagues, pleasant acquaintances, etc. Since I was in nursary school, I've been as comfortable around girls as I have boys, as comfortable in crowds of girls as I have groups of boys. Maybe it's just a result of being raised alongside my sister (we're very close in age- we were raised almost like I imagine twins must be), but women are not something other to me. Okay, okay, there are noticable trends and differences in behaviour between sexes- and I'm very good at getting a read on these- so it's certainly not that I don't understand women. I do, very well. But in practice it means little. Because women aren't something "other" to me I don't give out the signals necessary to propell a relationship into "courtship". I certainly don't put women on a pedestal, I don't act as though they are alien to me, I have no difficulty understanding them and I don't "treat them like ladies" or any of that nonsense. And they don't treat me as anything alien either. Hence, very productive friendships and a real ease with forming non-sexual relationships with women, but no spark of courtship. The only women who I know for sure have viewed me in a sexual light are women I'm not friends with- so, usually the rather unappealing ones. They'll whisper under their breath to one another that I'm "so fit", but none of the many women I know and like would ever do that.

Of course, I can't complain, because I don't want to court women who wrap themselves in that femininity and "play the game". I've had a couple of young women approach me in bars, etc, clearly thinking they can mess with me by playing the seductress, thinking I'll compliment them by becoming dazzled and not seeing what manipulative, nasty people they are. They remind me exactly of my so-called friends at early secondary school. Every day these "friends" bullied me and treated me poorly, but they were convinced I was a naive boy who was clueless as to what they were doing and how they viewed me. I certainly wasn't- I just lacked the guts to challenge it, and people automatically mistake my smiling, open, polite manner for, well, stupidity. Same with these girls in bars. They honestly seem to believe I can't see through them and I'm a naive boy who they can meddle with. And that I will respond to their "feminine charm" and "otherness" with wide-eyed acceptance. In other words, the only women and girls who approach me in a sexual matter are distinctly predatory . I greatly distrust women who court through hiding their true selves.

One last thing in this lengthy post (sorry!). In primary school - and thinking of another thread currently active - the children eventually split into three large communities. The girls. The boys. And others. By which I mean, the girls were girls, the boys were boys, and the rest of the girls and boys were largely genderless in habits and formed a multi-sex third group. I was in that. Of course, we were seen as "less mature" because we played like children should, rather than training ourselves up to be sexual by practicing our gender roles. The boys and girls were soon playing "going out" and "boyfriends and girlfriends". In my group, we just had friends.

So, my problem: friendship and courtship are seen as incompatable because to be friends with women is to know women - and in courtship, women are the Venusian to my Martian, the unknowable "other". And I'm not complaining that my friends don't want to have sex with me . But it's odd hearing them talk about relationship problems all the time- eventually you start thinking "well, there are other boys who don't fit into the social categories you keep drawing from. There are several here in front of you, you know. Have you considered that?" But of course they haven't. You are friend, not "man".

 

[Cheapjack]

I don't see any distinction between love, sex and friendship between the sexes.

But i've only done it once, and then only bits of it. Dolphins have sex with their friends, don't they?

 

[TheBrew]

Allow me to be the first to say "TL;DR" , though I did do an SAT reading of it. What you described is the ladder theory and I would say that it is sort of true, though I as a male am friends with women that I have no intention of ever sleeping with (and they aren't ugly). However, I think that it is easier to jump ladders than you think.

I think the key, like J. said, is confidence in all areas of your life. The more confident you are, the more success you will have and success breeds success.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Dolphins have sex with their friends, don't they?

Well, they're also rapists...

Kidding! Yes, I believe they do.

 

[Char Aznable]

loveshy

Here is the nest that those, "people," reside. http://www.love-shy.com/lsbb/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=208b8b277c6a09650a745c1d1076a470. I don't know why So many here are freely admitting to being one of them, but its depressing. Stop it. You're not loveshy just because you're too shy to ask a girl out/inexperienced at a late age. No, loveshies are the scum of the Earth and are worthy of nothing, but our distain. Seriously, read this shit:

Being capable physically of having sex. But not being capable of obtaining it except by paying for it.

Being so frustrated by your unfullfilled sexual needs, you end up on medication to stop yourself from committing suicide.

Being lonely, year after year after FUCKING year.

Learning to hate mankind with a passion.

Realising that the only way you can ever know true peace - is death.

When you fuckers can understand all of this, THEN you are entiled to post here.

This is how they treat women who dare post in their little butthurt hug box. Is it any wonder why no woman will let them have sex? Do you still want to be associated with those, "people?" They do NOT deserve to have sex and anyone like them . . . well, I hope you never get laid if you even remotely sympathize with their behavior.

 

[TheBrew]

I want to kill myself after reading all of that.