MLB's "National League" is the world's oldest...

[Chaos Descending]

... existing professional team sports league!

I was very surprised to hear this. I would have thought that one of the associating football leagues would have that honor, but apparently not!

 

[clint g]

I'm not schocked. From what I remember it dates back to the mid 1800s

 

[Chaos Descending]

Depends on how you classify, "mid". It was formed in 1876, I believe.

 

[clint g]

Close enough

 

[Roger Wilco]

The FA Cup is a little older but it's not technically a "league" I guess.

 

[Chaos Descending]

True. The "FA" is more of a "Governing Body" whereas the "Premier League" would be a closer analogy.

 

[Roger Wilco]

The Football League is a better comparison but it's not as old as the National League. Also, I'm not sure the FA Cup was played by professional teams for the first couple years and in any case, neither FA Cup nor Football League was played through WWI and WWII - contrary to the National League.

 

[Count Zero]

Football was played by non-professionals for quite a long time. In Germany, it only happened after WWII, for example.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Football was played by non-professionals for quite a long time. In Germany, it only happened after WWII, for example.

Well, so was every other sport in the entire world.

 

[Count Zero]

I don't think that's true. At the 1934 World Cup the German amateur team was already almost a curiosity, so I think there were professional leagues in existence in other countries.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Football was played by non-professionals for quite a long time. In Germany, it only happened after WWII, for example.

Germany was very late to the game in that regard, later than almost everyone else primarily because of political factors and because of the strength of the gymnastics movement. Football was professional at least since the 1880s in Britain and there have been fully professional football leagues in continental Europe since at least the 1920s.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I don't think that's true. At the 1934 World Cup the German amateur team was already almost a curiosity, so I think there were professional leagues in existence in other countries.

I think maybe we're having a mis-communication.

You said, "Football was played by non-professionals for quite a long time". My response was to that comment.

EVERY sport was played by non-professionals for quite a long time before their professional leagues were formed.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Actually I would disagree with even that. I think baseball and soccer are two examples where full professionalisation happened very quickly, in a matter of only a couple decades.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Actually I would disagree with even that. I think baseball and soccer are two examples where full professionalisation happened very quickly, in a matter of only a couple decades.

A couple of decades is still a pretty long time, IMHO.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I think it's very fast for a sport that's just been codified (even if versions of the game have been played previously already) to become professional, meaning that it's players have no job besides playing, within just one or two generations of players.

 

[Count Zero]

I didn't know that about Britain in the 1880s. I always thought professionalisation was a thing of the 20s.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I think it's very fast for a sport that's just been codified (even if versions of the game have been played previously already) to become professional, meaning that it's players have no job besides playing, within just one or two generations of players.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I suppose. I don't think it's actually that quick, but you do. All fair opinions.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I didn't know that about Britain in the 1880s. I always thought professionalisation was a thing of the 20s.

Yeah. It wasn't without opposition of course. Like all sports, or even the idea of sports, football was originally a pastime of the upper classes and they considered doing sports for any reason other than competition for competition's sake obscene. But football spread so quickly among the working class across the industrial centers in northern England and Scotland and gained so much popularity that those posh aristocrats were steamrolled basically. Sure, the kid of some rich factory owner would rather just play with other rich kids, but the factory worker can't afford leaving work to play a game...
The first english champion, Preston North End, probably was already at least a semi-professional team when they won the double in 1888.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I suppose. I don't think it's actually that quick, but you do. All fair opinions.

Alright, whatever.

 

[Skywalker]

Woo! USA! USA! USA!

 

[Starbreaker]

Founding NL teams, FYI:

Chicago White Stockings from the N.A. (now the Chicago Cubs)
Philadelphia Athletics from the N.A. (expelled after the 1876 season)
Boston Red Stockings, the dominant team in the N.A. (now the Atlanta Braves)
Hartford Dark Blues from the N.A. (folded after the 1877 season)
Mutual of New York from the N.A. (expelled after the 1876 season)
St. Louis Brown Stockings from the N.A. (folded after the 1877 season, having committed to Louisville stars for 1878)
Cincinnati Red Stockings, a new franchise, unrelated to the team by the same name that folded in 1870 (expelled after the 1880 season)
Louisville Grays, a new franchise (folded after the 1877 season when four players were banned for gambling)