Miranda Class - Original Design Intention

[EJD1984]

We've heard about the the original design intention of the Miranda/Reliant, and to where Producer Harve Bennett had accidentally signed the drawing upside down.

I'm not sure if those original drawings have ever seen the light of day, so I did a little cut and paste to get a good idea how the Reliant would have looked if the drawings would have been signed properly.

Intention:

Approved:

Though really looking at the two versions, I can see a potential design flaw in the final version. Would you really want the Weapons Pod firing photon torpedoes over your head (bridge)?

Don't take this the wrong way - I've loved the on-screen Reliant since the first time I saw ir on screen.

 

[DonIago]

Pretty sure the Nebula class has weapons firing right over the bridge...

 

[EJD1984]

Pretty sure the Nebula class has weapons firing right over the bridge...

True - This also shows that the Nebula Class was influenced (and possible direct successor) to the Miranda Class.

I'm not overtly criticizing, more of a personal design observation/preference. I just did this exercise more out of curiosity.

 

[Wingsley]

When the Enterprise fired all her weapons (that we ever saw) from the base of the saucer, that at least made minimal sense to me. I could see an aft phaser bank or torpedo tube on the secondary hull.

None of the TMP-era designs made any sense to me. Even though they all had enough clearance to work when firing straight ahead, it always seemed too easy for an accident to occur and for the torpedo to hit the ship it was fired from.

The thing about the Reliant that always got me was that there was this torpedo housing off by itself in its own mini-hull, but the rest of the ship was all contained in one hull. Why? The Enterprise's design logic made it clear that the secondary hull was there to keep dangerous equipment (engine room, hangar deck, navi-deflector) separate from the primary hull.

Given this apparent logic, Starscape's Spitfire (additional image) would've made a more consistent design and more interesting to the eye.

 

[JNG]

Though really looking at the two versions, I can see a potential design flaw in the final version. Would you really want the Weapons Pod firing photon torpedoes over your head (bridge)?

Why not?

 

[Clawhammer]

Nice work! I must admit that it looks strange because we are all pretty used to the "normal" version. The pod on the bottom does make sense though, but the design somehow lost a bit of balance.

I think it's save, these launchers probably give the torpedo enough speed even when it would for some reason not be powered, also the tubes will sent out the torpedo almost exactly straight, and in space that means it will go straight and eventually bend because of the 1mm space between the launcher and the torpedo.

Also:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...G_68)_fires_a_Tomahawk_missile_during_OIF.jpg if these guys feel secure enough about a launch....then I dont worry too much either!

 

[Praetor]

Star Trek: The Magazine published the signed drawing a few years back when they were in operation in an article about the development of TWOK. Like most of my Star Trek publications, it's at my parents' house but I will see if I can find it online or the next time I go and make a scan. Your effort looks spot on, EJD1984!

When the Enterprise fired all her weapons (that we ever saw) from the base of the saucer, that at least made minimal sense to me. I could see an aft phaser bank or torpedo tube on the secondary hull.

None of the TMP-era designs made any sense to me. Even though they all had enough clearance to work when firing straight ahead, it always seemed too easy for an accident to occur and for the torpedo to hit the ship it was fired from.

The thing about the Reliant that always got me was that there was this torpedo housing off by itself in its own mini-hull, but the rest of the ship was all contained in one hull. Why? The Enterprise's design logic made it clear that the secondary hull was there to keep dangerous equipment (engine room, hangar deck, navi-deflector) separate from the primary hull.

Given this apparent logic, Starscape's Spitfire (additional image) would've made a more consistent design and more interesting to the eye.

You make some very good points, Wingsley. Putting the torpedo launcher in the neck seems a vulnerability in retrospect, even though I know it was Jefferies' intention as far back as the Phase II design. I wish he were around to answer the question as to why, but perhaps Mr. Probert might pop in and share his thoughts on it?

Also, putting everything in one hull as in the Miranda does seem to go backwards from the idea of putting the engines and dangerous bits at a safe distance. Did Miranda crews just have to pray their warp cores never breached? The torpedoes seem like the least of the concerns there.

 

[SG-17]

Well maybe the Miranda class had a way to jettison the warp core out of the rear of the ship if it were to breach.

 

[Anticitizen]

Though really looking at the two versions, I can see a potential design flaw in the final version. Would you really want the Weapons Pod firing photon torpedoes over your head (bridge)?

So you're saying it's better if the photon torpedoes hit the underside of the saucer instead?

There are two possibilities. In scenario one, torpedoes are completely unguided. In scenario two, they are guided by self-propulsion or some force field/tractor beam guidance.

Scenario one opens up the possibility of a torpedo hitting the ship itself while the ship is undergoing certain maneuvers. Because the launchers are placed where they are, in such a position, I think we can give enough credit to the starship engineers of the 23rd century and assume that torpedo guidance extends beyond the exit point in the launcher.

 

[Vance]

The original drawings have surfaced, though I'm not sure where to find them now. One thing to note, the Avenger configuration (as some call it) didn't have a rollbar. Instead it had two seperate one-torpedo pods handing from the pylons below the saucer.

Similar to this:

The major differences being that the hull extension was BELOW the centerline, and not above, and the pylons sloped in the opposite diagonals. I've never drawn the exact version of the ship, but it's something I've been keeping in mind...

http://www.pixelsagas.com/gallery/albums/tmp/Schematic_TMP_Avenger.gif

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Well, Harve Bennett's little dyslexic escapade might expain why the Reliant has no visible nav-deflector.

The "Torpedo-Tube" was supposed to be a nav-deflector. The deeper top section of the bridge was probably to house a pair of torpedo tubes.


CuttingEdge100

 

[Silversmok3]

The post about the weapons being in strange places makes sense.

With the torpedo launchers in the base of the saucer(Constution class) ,you cannot engage enemy ships above Enterprise ,and you must target them below and forward-as well as the phaser placement.

If the bad guys pulled a Scinzon and shot at Kirk's Enterprise from directly above/behind and they'd be screwed .

As far as Reliant's design,I like it as the Miranda is a more agressive style of starship.

Though its lack of a deflector's pretty sore.That's like having a starship without life support.

 

[EJD1984]

Also:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/USS_Anzio_(CG_68)_fires_a_Tomahawk_missile_during_OIF.jpg if these guys feel secure enough about a launch....then I dont worry too much either!

True. Also, thanks for reminding me..........LOL I had forgotten that I worked on VLS (Vertical Launch System) at LM years ago.....getting old.

There are a lot of safety protocols that have to be followed prior to a missile launch from the ship, one of the main ones is the entire deck has to be cleared for of all personnel and debris. There could be a similar safety protocols on federation ships.

My intention wasn't to say the on screen Reliant was wrong, I was just curious what the original design would have looked like.

 

[Vance]

Well, Harve Bennett's little dyslexic escapade might expain why the Reliant has no visible nav-deflector.

No, I think that Bennett went of the 'deflector screens' from TOS, which is very much evident on both the Reliant and Enterprise in TWOK. (Remember, there's an explicit shot of the Enterprise's deflectors going up as part of the shield grid and not the dish.)

With the torpedo launchers in the base of the saucer(Constution class) ,you cannot engage enemy ships above Enterprise ,and you must target them below and forward-as well as the phaser placement.

I would assume that, at the ranges Starships would USUALLY engage one another in, that the torpedoes would simply arc around. There's nothing, anywhere on screen, to suggest that torpedoes are just dumb-fire weapons.

 

[SG-17]

No, in fact I believe you can see them curve to intercept ships in some episodes.

 

[Silversmok3]

No, in fact I believe you can see them curve to intercept ships in some episodes.

Yes they do curve,however to shoot at a target in the position described the torpedo would have to fly forward,then back over the top of the saucer!

Not exactly the safest shot to make,and it gives the target plenty of time to dodge the shot.

 

[Maurice]

(Remember, there's an explicit shot of the Enterprise's deflectors going up as part of the shield grid and not the dish.)

Saavik says "Energize defense field", and they show the unused Intruder Alert diagram left over from TMP. She doesn't say deflectors.

 

[Vance]

Saavik says "Energize defense field", and they show the unused Intruder Alert diagram left over from TMP. She doesn't say deflectors.

Then what, exactly, is the 'defense field' supposed to be, when it's clearly shown to be part of the shield grid?

 

[lennier1]

I actually prefer the version done by the guys at TLW over the fully inverted Miranda:

 

[AJBryant]

The major differences being that the hull extension was BELOW the centerline, and not above, and the pylons sloped in the opposite diagonals. I've never drawn the exact version of the ship, but it's something I've been keeping in mind..

Something like this?