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Microsofts next cockup...

Rincewiend

Admiral
Admiral
Stealth marketing: Microsoft paying YouTubers for Xbox One mentions

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/...osoft-paying-youtubers-for-xbox-one-mentions/

To qualify for the campaign (and the extra payments), Machinima partners had to post a video including at least 30 seconds of Xbox One game footage that mentioned the Xbox One by name and included the tag "XB1M13." A YouTube search for that relatively unique term turns up "about 6,590 results," but a quick scan of those results shows only a few hundred that actually seem to be tagged for the Machinima promotion.

These kinds of payments aren't inherently suspect in and of themselves. If the video makers disclosed that Microsoft was paying extra for these videos, and if they were allowed to say whatever they wanted in those videos, then the whole thing could be seen as merely an unorthodox way to increase exposure for the Xbox One on YouTube.

That's not the case, however. According to a leaked copy of the full legal agreement behind the promotion, video creators "may not say anything negative or disparaging about Machinima, Xbox One, or any of its Games" and must keep the details of the promotional agreement confidential in order to qualify for payment. In other words, to get the money, video makers have to speak positively (or at least neutrally) about the Xbox One, and they can't say they're being paid to do so.

The arrangement as described might go against the FTC's guidelines for the use of endorsements in advertising, which demand full disclosure when there is "a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement."
The document offers a specific example of a video game blogger who gets a free game system that he later talks about on his blog. That blogger would need to disclose that gift, the FTC says, because his opinion is "disseminated via a form of consumer-generated media in which his relationship to the advertiser is not inherently obvious." That same reasoning would seem to apply to the opinions expressed by the video makers participating in this promotion. Neither Microsoft nor Machinima responded immediately to a request for comment on the matter, but we'll let you know if and when we hear from them.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjObpd5U33U[/yt]
 
That's fine, but nobody really cares about your (or my) opinion on the matter. Certain youtubers have a lot more influence on their viewers which makes this very shady indeed. As I understand it the key factor is the total non-disclosure clause which is apparently flat-out illegal under US law.

It basically crosses the line from sponsorship to bribery.
 
Wow, that's pretty shameless on MS' part. It does sound like it's illegal--and I think it should be. Paid endorsements should be disclosed, not confidential.
 
As if any company would leave it to luck to get a good image for their product. Any company will stack the deck if it's legal (and it's legal to pay someone to talk well about your product unless they're really lying which would be false advertising).

It doesn't surprise me the least and i fully expected it.. maybe Sony is doing it too but are a little bit more subtle or luckier to not get caught. When you invest hundreds of millions into a new device you will make sure to get your money back.

Nothing to really get outraged over.. anyone who believes anybody deserves what he gets. The only thing that works most of the time is to judge by yourself or listen to people you personally know.
 
Companies do this a lot these days. Heck I don't even pay attention to any overly positive reviews on games or movies, tbh. That's usually a sign that someone might have been paid off to say something good about it.
 
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As if any company would leave it to luck to get a good image for their product. Any company will stack the deck if it's legal (and it's legal to pay someone to talk well about your product unless they're really lying which would be false advertising).

It's legal to pay someone to speak well of your product. It's not legal to do it without disclosing that you're being compensated.

It doesn't surprise me the least and i fully expected it.. maybe Sony is doing it too but are a little bit more subtle or luckier to not get caught. When you invest hundreds of millions into a new device you will make sure to get your money back.

Strange, you'd think they might spend money on making a good product and then letting the product speak for itself, rather than buying good reviews. After all, if it's a good product, the reviews will bear that out without a financial incentive.

Nothing to really get outraged over.. anyone who believes anybody deserves what he gets. The only thing that works most of the time is to judge by yourself or listen to people you personally know.

This is cynical nonsense. The marketplace is not a free-for-all where you can secretly pay people to say anything you want about your products. On top of being dishonest, it's also illegal.
 
As if any company would leave it to luck to get a good image for their product. Any company will stack the deck if it's legal (and it's legal to pay someone to talk well about your product unless they're really lying which would be false advertising).

It's legal to pay someone to speak well of your product. It's not legal to do it without disclosing that you're being compensated.

It doesn't surprise me the least and i fully expected it.. maybe Sony is doing it too but are a little bit more subtle or luckier to not get caught. When you invest hundreds of millions into a new device you will make sure to get your money back.
Strange, you'd think they might spend money on making a good product and then letting the product speak for itself, rather than buying good reviews. After all, if it's a good product, the reviews will bear that out without a financial incentive.

Nothing to really get outraged over.. anyone who believes anybody deserves what he gets. The only thing that works most of the time is to judge by yourself or listen to people you personally know.
This is cynical nonsense. The marketplace is not a free-for-all where you can secretly pay people to say anything you want about your products. On top of being dishonest, it's also illegal.

Apologies if you are offended but i think you are being very naive if you think companies would trust the qualities of their products alone to do their marketing for them. They invest hundreds of millions (and sometimes billions) in developing products and they simply don't leave it to something so incalculable as public perception in the hopes it will be favorable.

As to the legality.. it's definitely shady as heck but the devil is in the details and i believe that if it was a MS approved OP that their legal department checked it out to the core just in case and made some fine adjustments so if it blew it would not be so bad from the legal side.

My point stands.. companies will lie, beg, steal and cheat to get an edge over the competitor. Do you believe any corporation totally follows the law in everything they do? I'm working now for over 15 years and the shit i've seen my companies do would have landed many people in jail.. it's just that some things are kept under wraps and are considered under the general "Everybody'd doing it!" excuse. Many times they get away with it (sometimes by outright bribing those assigned to control them from the government side) and those few that don't get to make news of the day or week.

So it doesn't matter if the product is good or bad, companies will distort the truth to come out on top so it's getting harder to spot the sources that have remained unspoiled. And sometimes you fall very hard on your ass when you discover that the source you trusted most has betrayed you by doctoring their reviews (if only slightly).
 
As if any company would leave it to luck to get a good image for their product. Any company will stack the deck if it's legal (and it's legal to pay someone to talk well about your product unless they're really lying which would be false advertising).

It's legal to pay someone to speak well of your product. It's not legal to do it without disclosing that you're being compensated.

Strange, you'd think they might spend money on making a good product and then letting the product speak for itself, rather than buying good reviews. After all, if it's a good product, the reviews will bear that out without a financial incentive.

Nothing to really get outraged over.. anyone who believes anybody deserves what he gets. The only thing that works most of the time is to judge by yourself or listen to people you personally know.
This is cynical nonsense. The marketplace is not a free-for-all where you can secretly pay people to say anything you want about your products. On top of being dishonest, it's also illegal.

Apologies if you are offended but i think you are being very naive if you think companies would trust the qualities of their products alone to do their marketing for them. They invest hundreds of millions (and sometimes billions) in developing products and they simply don't leave it to something so incalculable as public perception in the hopes it will be favorable.

:rolleyes: I'm well aware that companies hire shills all the time and engage in various kinds of marketing campaigns. Asking people who review their products to give them good reviews in exchange for a financial kickback, however, is unethical at best and illegal at worst.

As to the legality.. it's definitely shady as heck but the devil is in the details and i believe that if it was a MS approved OP that their legal department checked it out to the core just in case and made some fine adjustments so if it blew it would not be so bad from the legal side.

Let me put it another way: even if it is legal, it shouldn't be. However, I don't think it is. The FTC clarified its rules on paid bloggers not that long ago, and giving paid endorsements on your blog without disclosing that you're being paid goes against those rules. It's questionable who is ultimately on the hook for it, though.

My point stands.. companies will lie, beg, steal and cheat to get an edge over the competitor. Do you believe any corporation totally follows the law in everything they do? I'm working now for over 15 years and the shit i've seen my companies do would have landed many people in jail.. it's just that some things are kept under wraps and are considered under the general "Everybody'd doing it!" excuse. Many times they get away with it (sometimes by outright bribing those assigned to control them from the government side) and those few that don't get to make news of the day or week.

So you've seen companies engage in blatantly illegal activity and you said and did nothing?

So it doesn't matter if the product is good or bad, companies will distort the truth to come out on top so it's getting harder to spot the sources that have remained unspoiled. And sometimes you fall very hard on your ass when you discover that the source you trusted most has betrayed you by doctoring their reviews (if only slightly).

Yes, it's nothing but a hopeless arms race in which we'll never be able to trust anything or anyone. What a world!

Your jaded attitude isn't insightful or useful, it's more of the typical complacent cynicism that infects discourse on a plethora of topics. Like the people who say "all politicians are crooked" and "it doesn't matter who you vote for." It justifies inaction and complacency. I know we're just talking about video games here, but I'm so tired of seeing the attitude that everything's screwed up and only destined to become more screwed up and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Absolute bullshit. No one's obligated to put up with low standards or accept "that's just the way it is."

Buying off critics is not okay. Those who are bought need to be exposed publicly so everyone knows they have no credibility.
 
As if any company would leave it to luck to get a good image for their product. Any company will stack the deck if it's legal (and it's legal to pay someone to talk well about your product unless they're really lying which would be false advertising).

It's legal to pay someone to speak well of your product. It's not legal to do it without disclosing that you're being compensated.

Strange, you'd think they might spend money on making a good product and then letting the product speak for itself, rather than buying good reviews. After all, if it's a good product, the reviews will bear that out without a financial incentive.

Nothing to really get outraged over.. anyone who believes anybody deserves what he gets. The only thing that works most of the time is to judge by yourself or listen to people you personally know.
This is cynical nonsense. The marketplace is not a free-for-all where you can secretly pay people to say anything you want about your products. On top of being dishonest, it's also illegal.

Apologies if you are offended but i think you are being very naive if you think companies would trust the qualities of their products alone to do their marketing for them. They invest hundreds of millions (and sometimes billions) in developing products and they simply don't leave it to something so incalculable as public perception in the hopes it will be favorable.

As to the legality.. it's definitely shady as heck but the devil is in the details and i believe that if it was a MS approved OP that their legal department checked it out to the core just in case and made some fine adjustments so if it blew it would not be so bad from the legal side.

My point stands.. companies will lie, beg, steal and cheat to get an edge over the competitor. Do you believe any corporation totally follows the law in everything they do? I'm working now for over 15 years and the shit i've seen my companies do would have landed many people in jail.. it's just that some things are kept under wraps and are considered under the general "Everybody'd doing it!" excuse. Many times they get away with it (sometimes by outright bribing those assigned to control them from the government side) and those few that don't get to make news of the day or week.

So it doesn't matter if the product is good or bad, companies will distort the truth to come out on top so it's getting harder to spot the sources that have remained unspoiled. And sometimes you fall very hard on your ass when you discover that the source you trusted most has betrayed you by doctoring their reviews (if only slightly).


So because it's an obvious thing to do to, there's no reason to bat an eyelid when they get caught breaking the law to protect an investment? Forgive me but I really hope you're never assigned jury duty.
 
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Companies do this a lot these days. Heck I don't even pay attention to any overly positive reviews on games or movies, tbh. That's usually a sign that someone might have been paid off to say something good about it.

I'm not surprised in the least. It's been happening for a long time in this industry (probably others too). I know for a fact that there were gaming magazines in the 80s and 90s whose reviews were stacked towards positivity just because the publishers threatened to with-hold exclusives, etc.

So no, it's not really just a recent thing. Unfortunately.

As such I've always taken written reviews as a general guide about a product, but always taken with a very large pinch of salt. If a review sounds too positive, I tend to skip it. I think critical faculty is important. Likewise if it's too negative. In my opinion, all reviews should at least acknowledge where the flaws are, alongside the positives, offer an opinion, and then allow the consumer to then make their own judgement based on both the good and the bad. Because ultimately the only thing that matters is whether it sounds like my sort of thing.

Mind you, having said that, there are sometimes genuinely good products that deserve praise, and also genuinely bad products that deserve a kick in the pants. No shades of gray. :D ;)

I do think that people who review things have a responsibility to offer a broad analysis of the product, while still remaining critically neutral about it. A hard thing for a reviewer to do, but it can be done.
 
So you've seen companies engage in blatantly illegal activity and you said and did nothing?

Let me kick that high horse you're on for a little bit.

I'm not talking about practices that would endanger health or life of anybody, more of the kind of bending/breaking tax laws and such.. "academic" stuff for lack of better words (like many of us do themselves when they fudge their tax reports a little bit or those who illegally download stuff through filesharing).

If you would always get up in arms and confront the company you work for be prepared to change your employer quite frequently. This is the hypocrisy of the internet and life thrown together where it's easy to critcize someone you don't know but when push comes to shove and your very economical existence is threatened many people tend to shut up and continue. I've lost count of all the "When i quit the company i'll take a dump on my boss!" statements and in reality people just left without getting some dumb revenge.

Yes, it's nothing but a hopeless arms race in which we'll never be able to trust anything or anyone. What a world!

I don't trust any company in the world because all they want is my money and they'll do nearly anything to get it. Good service and customer satisfaction is nice to have but a company then expects you to return to them to do business. If they think (or are proven) that they can cut out having customer satisfaction (thus cutting costs in marketing and other areas) and you still return to do business they will do so.. case in point oil companies.

You want to drive a car (and sometimes you don't have a choice if public transportation sucks) you will return to the gas station and pay the price of the day.. you can grumble your entire life and it won't change a thing because you are at the mercy of the company and they damn well know it.

Your jaded attitude isn't insightful or useful, it's more of the typical complacent cynicism that infects discourse on a plethora of topics. Like the people who say "all politicians are crooked" and "it doesn't matter who you vote for." It justifies inaction and complacency. I know we're just talking about video games here, but I'm so tired of seeing the attitude that everything's screwed up and only destined to become more screwed up and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Absolute bullshit. No one's obligated to put up with low standards or accept "that's just the way it is."

I never said it would be useful, just realistic. But you forget one thing.. i can still vote with my wallet in the case of consumer/luxury goods and i do. Microsoft will not earn any of my money this console cycle, i.e. i won't buy an X One because i find their actions and attitude towards the customer deplorable and they did a really shitty job disguising it.

For once consumers really made a change by raising all hell in the lead up which made MS blink and change some of their controversial things like the only online "mandatory" feature (which turns out was not that mandatory after all) and this is the only language companies understand.. the bottom line.

Sony got hit hard in the last years when they tried to hassle their customers too with restrictive methods to press even more money out of their customer so apparently they have learned their lesson and didn't make the same mistakes with the PS4 and it shows when the PS4 routinely beats out the XO in every poll and sales number i see (and i don't expect that to change anytime soon).

Buying off critics is not okay. Those who are bought need to be exposed publicly so everyone knows they have no credibility.

No argument there.

So because it's an obvious thing to do to, there's no reason to bat an eyelid when they get caught breaking the law to protect an investment? Forgive me but I really hope you're never assigned jury duty.

Uhm.. am i a state attorney or the FTC? Did i say they didn't need to be punished or at least investigated? If so please point it out.

I said it didn't surprise me that MS would do such a thing and they should suffer the consequences both commercially if customers decide not to buy their product and legally if it turns out to be illegal.

If it's illegal the hammer should be brought down on them to the full extent as a warning to them and all the others that this doesn't fly.

So when did you file your legal complaint against MS?
 
I'm not surprised in the least. It's been happening for a long time in this industry (probably others too). I know for a fact that there were gaming magazines in the 80s and 90s whose reviews were stacked towards positivity just because the publishers threatened to with-hold exclusives, etc.

Have you seen the Best Buy-produced video game magazine? I don't know if it's gotten any better, but when it first came out the "reviews" were a joke. There wasn't one bad review (because Best Buy is selling those very video games, after all) and the negatives had nothing to do with the games themselves. Here were the cons they listed for Crackdown 2:

At some point, the game will end and you'll be done.

In September, Halo: Reach will come out, which is great on its own, but not for those who want to keep playing Crackdown 2.
 
Nothing really new here, this type of underhand practice started long ago with games mags, who were in the position of not wanting to lose advert revenue by giving bad review scores to the games of the same companies who were placing ads in their mags, same BS, new technology.

Gamers just have to be aware if these practices and not fall for this BS.

The gaming industry seems to be turning into a megalomaniacal Bond villian these days by the way they carry on, lol
 
video creators "may not say anything negative or disparaging about Machinima, Xbox One, or any of its Games"

Even though Microsoft supposedly considers honesty and integrity to be part of their company values, according to their website.
 
Playing devils advocate for a moment, I've never gone to machinima.com or their YouTube channel looking for news. I don't recall them ever representing themselves as a gaming news site, and I've never considered them anything other than. Group of dudes and girls who love video games.

With that said, can you blame them if someone like Microsoft went to them and offered them some money just to mention the Xbox One... Can you blame them for jumping at that chance?
 
I think it's the strict prohibition on saying anything *negative* about their products and interests that is the real problem. That totally invalidates any credibility as a source for critical review. Not being allowed to disclose the sponsorship is just the proverbial illegal icing on the proverbial unethical cake.
 
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video creators "may not say anything negative or disparaging about Machinima, Xbox One, or any of its Games"

Even though Microsoft supposedly considers honesty and integrity to be part of their company values, according to their website.

So does nearly every company, according to their websites.

Apparently "Lying and screwing the customer out of their money" doesn't play well as the publically posted Core Values, even if it really is true. They all like to at least pretend to value you. ;)

"your call is important to us" is used in every call center, pretty much, but it's apparently not so important that they staff the call center enough to handle your call in a timely manner...
 
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