Michael Burnham is the Chosen One

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Kane_Steel, Jan 10, 2019.

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  1. Kane_Steel

    Kane_Steel Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    While there are a lot of divisive opinions on Michael Boredom, I applaud the consistency of the showrunners' attempts to convince audiences that she is the second coming...



    Will the Burnham praise-fest continue into Season Two? We can only hope.
     
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  2. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Commodore Commodore

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    I'm in the Burnham camp, so I think this video is great! :p

    But, putting on my critical hat... I think if it were shorter and edited in a way to make it funny, it would be even better.
     
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  3. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    I agree. The presence of the badass fight scenes detracts from what the tuber is trying to prove. Those are examples of storytelling done right - Burnham is being shown to be awesome, rather than just being told she is awesome by another character.

    Seriously though, the excessive compliments were annoying, at least personally, and drew me out of the narrative. No one regularly compliments another person unless it's their child or romantic interest. It comes across as insincere if it's done too frequently.
     
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  4. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just less excruciatingly boring speeches, please...
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I must work with a lot of insincere people then...
     
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  6. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Commodore Commodore

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    Long ago, we used to have someone on here who used to always say, and I quote... "You're the best. :) "

    Like this post if you get it...
     
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  7. Kane_Steel

    Kane_Steel Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yup. It's 'show, don't tell.' If you are constantly 'telling' your audience that your lead character is the best thing evaar at everything, it shows a lack of confidence in the character and the actor's ability to sell it.
     
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  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't have any particular beef about Burnham's character, but that's because I find it hard to find anything likable about any of the characters so far. If I had to choose one person I like the most, it would be Saru, followed not-so-closely by Stamets, and that's only because I like that he's a smartass.
     
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  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    In an agnostic/humanist franchise? I don't think so.
    I sincerely hope so. :beer:

    Yeah, I enjoyed that video and enjoyed seeing Michael's challenges, and skills. And I will continue to do so especially as so many think so little of her.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  10. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The scene in the turbolift was my second favorite Burnham/Georgiou scene. The captain had no axe to grind against burnham and had no need to "stake out her territory'". Phillipa's honesty touched Burnham in a way the underlying compliment did not. It was a great scene for showing us the basis of their relationship.

    This vid also contained my favorite Burnham/Georgiou; the hologram scene where the captain bequeaths the family telescope to Michael. Really poignant.

    Haters were triggered when the show "told" us Burnham was awesome, AND when we were being "shown" Burnham being awesome. You know, I'm beginning to think some of them might not have actually liked her. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  11. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    That's nice.
     
  12. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    That clip title is untrue - Burnham COULDN'T do a proper Vulcan neck pinch (and had she been able to, the WHOLE THING miight have gone differently). :whistle::nyah:;)
     
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  13. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Known Robot Sympathizer Moderator

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    Why is this only a problem with female characters? TOS glorified Kirk, TNG treated Picard as nearly a saint. This Mary Sue shit is just getting lame.
     
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  14. Mach5

    Mach5 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Harry Kim was a prodigy, Tom Paris was the best pilot in the galaxy, Bashir was superhuman, O'Brien performed engineering miracles before and after breakfast (sometimes during), Riker was the best XO to ever wear the uniform, superb pilot and a god's gift to women...
    Especially since Michael Burnham isn't perfect by any means.

    I ain't clicking that shit.
     
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  15. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    I gave up on The Flash largely for a similar reason - everyone always holding angsty Barry Allen's hand and praising him for...I dunno, being Barry Allen?

    What I saw of Burnham was nothing special. Not SMG's fault.
     
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  16. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    I don't see how those situations are analogous.

    Kirk was really only complimented by women who wanted to bone him. Sometimes an admiral would say something nice about Kirk's work, but usually it was either to soften the blow of a criticism or to say he was just right for job X. A handful of times Spock let it be known how valuable his friendship with Kirk was (most notably before his death in TWOK) but those moments were so memorable because they were so rare.

    Picard was probably complimented even less than Kirk, because he got laid far, far less, and maintained more professional distance with his crew. Can you think of a single time off the top of your head where you remember Riker, Data, or anyone else telling Jean-Luc how brilliant, compassionate, or talented he is? They certainly expressed gratitude for actions at particular points, but that's not the same thing.

    A lot of this admittedly may come down to the different dynamic with having the lead be the captain. Generally speaking, you come across as a politicking/shamelessly aiming for a promotion if you tell your boss he's doing a good job at something.

    Burnham is not a Mary Sue though by any means. A Mary Sue is a character without any flaws, and it's manifestly clear Micheal has some.
     
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  17. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    Well, it's true that Kirk was rarely praised early in the series* when they were trying to build him as a sympathetic, relatable character. Writers did that by surrounding him with characters who challenged him.

    In the later movies, there was some fussing about what a legendary and great man he was. These stories have never been among Trek's best, IMO, and aren't part of TOS proper.


    *You can call Khan telling him "I am intrigued by your abilities but quite frankly you are inferior" an example of other characters praising him, but you would be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  18. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think this video was a bit too long. I didn't watch it all the way through. I do think some of it was taken out of context in an attempt to prove a point (like the mental fight with Sarek; she bested him, but only after several attempts). The video doesn't point out how much of the praise was countered by a mistake that Burnham also made too. As others have said, Burnham was not a Mary Sue so I didn't have much of a problem with peoples' high opinions of her because very little came easy to her. And the reasons why Georgiou and Lorca felt so strongly about her were adequately explained or depicted on the show. And it also set up something nice to see where other peoples' opinions of a person don't always jibe with how that person sees themselves. Burnham wasn't ready to be a captain, though Georgiou couldn't see that, and Sarek perhaps either. They saw what they wanted to see in her, or what Burnham hadn't yet figured out about herself, despite whatever claims or assertions she might have made that seemed to support Georgiou's and Sarek's high praise for her.

    That being said, Burnham did ultimately prove to be right about the Klingons' intentions at the Binary Stars, though her own actions added fuel to that fire. It leaves Burnham a rough, complicated, complex character that I hope we continue seeing develop and expand in season two and beyond.

    When I think about Burnham it's a much different situation compared to another highly praised Trek character, Captain Archer. I felt Archer was more telling than showing when it came to his greatness, and with Burnham we are seeing her take her lumps and learning along the way in a way we rarely-unfortunately got to see with Archer. But those are just two of the Trek wunderkinds out there that videos could be made of (Tom Paris is another that comes to mind).
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I must work with way different people and in different industries that many here. Yea, I know the "brown noser" stereotype exists for a reason, but I've worked in two different fields were compliments among coworkers and management were common.
     
  20. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    I mean, the only person for whom the praise didn't really make sense in the mega-clip was MU Sarek. Which was admittedly the most jarring one. The others had plausible connections to her. I just didn't really think that so many were needed.

    Sarek - Adoptive father. Somehow, seems to have warmer feelings for her all the way through than he ever showed to Spock (yes, Lethe explains this, but still).
    Captain Georgiou - Commanding officer. For some odd reason, ends up a substitute mother to Burnham, teaching her how to be "human" (why couldn't Amanda do this???)
    Saru - Starts out disliking her due to what happened with Georgiou. Burnham earns respect over time (this is a good character arc!)
    Tilly - Becomes besties with Micheal and looks up to her due to her experience. I don't mind this relationship.
    Ash - Falls in love with Micheal. On paper, this worked out well (lovers do compliment each other), but in practice on screen, they had no chemistry. It's not a writing issue though.
    Lorca - Has tremendous respect for her from day one. It turns out he also is secretly in love with her. IMHO this wasn't needed from a narrative arc perspective.
    MU Georgiou - Was literally the adoptive mother of MU Micheal, thus both feel a strange sort of attachment to one another.

    Basically everyone in the plot - other than Stamets the spore guy, and some bit players like L'Rell, Cornwell, and Culber - are defined primarily by their relationship with Micheal. Now, in certain kinds of stories, this is entirely normal. But given Discovery also had ambitions of telling an epic story about the Klingon War, it just felt odd that the main cast was in so many ways primarily defined through their interactions with one character.
     
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