Marvel's 'Avengers' Success: What Can DC Comics Learn From It?

[RAMA]

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1684992/marvel-avengers-dc-comics.jhtml

From MTV.

Used to be that DC jumped in the lead, Superman then Batman, then the Batman reboot, now Marvel is so far out ahead it seems DC will never match it. I liked the Green Lantern movie and hope for more, but I don't see it reaching the audience of Iron Man or Thor. Justice League seems to only be viable in animation. DC can do exactly what Marvel did, and set up a storyline within it's heroes' movies, but it will no longer seem fresh or original..

RAMA

 

[Trekker4747]

DC can do it but a JLA movie would be years away from now and they'd have to set-up characters the same way Marvel did and, like you said, it'd seem like a retread of Marvel's actions.

Problem is they'd have to have good movies to setup their JLA characters. The Nolan/Bale Batman universe is out since it's over with TDKR and has stood alone.

This leaves the upcoming "Man of Steel" which may end up doing okay but that's a year away from proving one way or another. The next Batman "reboot" series of movies would have to follow in Man of Steel's footsteps in staying somewhat consistent in tone and in establishing a single "world" and itself work out well.

Then we've got the two "big" DC heroes for a JLA movie. Now a DC-CU has to establish more DC characters to put in a DCU and the ones they'd have to do to make it worthwhile is probably Wonder Woman and Aquaman.

Getting a Wonder Woman anything has been a mess over the last few years and, again, they'd have to make a successful movie that keeps in tone with a building universe.

Aquaman could also be done but now with him you'd have to overcome a lot of pre-conceived notions about him and his abilities that are out there thanks to "Super Friends." I think AM could be done but it'd have a lot to overcome. With Aquaman you could also bring in a secondary with Mera.

Then there's Green Lantern. His movie hardly set anyone on fire as it had mixed reaction. So it'd either need a Hulk-like soft reboot or a sequel to do "damage control" and to better fit with any tone the other movies tried to establish.

Being much more a DC guy I'd love to see a DC/JLA movie but, man, it'd be several years away and that's assuming DC has a plan now and can execute it well. They'd have to have good writers and directors set-up.

This is what Marvel did very, very well. They took comic book characters I didn't care about and gave them all good movies. I pretty much got drug to Iron Man and ended up loving it. I found Thor to be lame and just way "out there" and ended up liking the movie, I find Captain America to be way out of time (we're hardly "Rah! Rah! Go America!" anymore these days) and also pretty lame (let's face it, he was pretty much a WWII American-propaganda machine) and he had a great movie. Hulk had two lame movies which I chalked up to him being a character that doesn't work well on his own in a film format with how Marvel wanted to use him.

Marvel took all of these characters and made great movies for them and really established a universe. They did it with great writing, casting and directing.

WB/DC could do the same thing but they might need to really examine how Marvel did it and then try to get as close as possible without trying to duplicate it. Because if they try and to duplicate it they'll fail, it'll come-off as a rip-off.

They need to try and do it on their own way, make a coherent and cohesive universe and they need to start it now. And with any luck, we'll maybe have a JLA movie and Avengers 2 in 2016.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I could write a big reply to this, but instead will say "Pretty much what Trekker4747 said".

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I think they should revive George Miller's Justice League project. There's no need to spend years setting up films for each of the characters first. Everybody is familiar with Superman and Batman and now Green Lantern. The Wonder Woman tv show is still well known, so there's no need to reintroduce her to the public. Any of the other characters can be introduced within the context of the movie itself.

Why ramp up to a JL film when the general public is familiar with the main characters?

 

[Agenda]

They should forget Justice League for now and instead start on a Batman/Superman flick. Then maybe introduce more JL characters as they do sequels.

 

[Saga]

i just want a good live action Flash and/or Wonder Woman film.

 

[Trekker4747]

I think they should revive George Miller's Justice League project. There's no need to spend years setting up films for each of the characters first. Everybody is familiar with Superman and Batman and now Green Lantern. The Wonder Woman tv show is still well known, so there's no need to reintroduce her to the public. Any of the other characters can be introduced within the context of the movie itself.

Why ramp up to a JL film when the general public is familiar with the main characters?

The Wonder Woman TV show was made nearly 30 years ago and is hardly an accurate depiction of what Wonder Woman is in this day and age (or really even at all.) It's not about "introducing the character to public" but establishing them and building a universe which is what Marvel did so well here in the MCU. It wasn't all about introducing characters to audiences less familiar with them it was about building a world.

Which if we're going to have a good DC-CU like we do with Marvel that means giving stand-alone movies to the various team members. That's why TA works so well all the characters are established. Forget their powers and abilities but the characters are established, how the act and behave and react to situations. You didn't need to spend part of the movie showing us Tony Stark is an egotistical genius we already knew that from his movie.

In a DC-CU if we go straight to JLA movie without introducing a cinematic Wonder Woman or Superman or Batman in their own movies we won''t know how these people "really are" going into meaning they need to be established.

Now, sure, going into The Avengers one may know without seeing Iron Man that Tony Stark is an egotistical genius but what makes it all that much more great is in how that was established in Iron Man through RDJ's performance.

So in a DC-CU movie we'd need to see a movie just to see how an actress treats and plays the Wonder Woman character even if they completely went with the TV series version.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Nonsense. You can absolutely make a good ensemble piece without making four or five standalone flicks to set it up.

 

[RoJoHen]

There is this weird assumption that superheroes need origin stories to establish their characters. I don't see why someone couldn't just make a Justice League movie and skip over the origin. Granted, aside from Batman, I'm not a huge DC fan, but I feel like this is something that would easily be doable. The first X-Men movie wasn't an origin story, and it was generally well-received.

 

[TheGus251]

they can learn that ensemble action hero pieces can work but not in the movie genre - just bring the ensemble piece to tv so all the characters can get a chance to develop but maintaint he quality throughout

heroes was the closest thing to achieving this but died a little after an excellent first season...however with proper DC characters and a Wheddon or an Abrams at the helm then this kind of tv show would break all records, i'm sure of it

 

[Shatinator]

Nonsense. You can absolutely make a good ensemble piece without making four or five standalone flicks to set it up.

No, I disagree. The character inter-play is the meat of it. A successful film is more than just plot. We are not talking about throwing a few faceless red shirts into an gladiator arena and demanding them to entertain us.

Think about this --which would you prefer.

There is this weird assumption that superheroes need origin stories to establish their characters. I don't see why someone couldn't just make a Justice League movie and skip over the origin. Granted, aside from Batman, I'm not a huge DC fan, but I feel like this is something that would easily be doable. The first X-Men movie wasn't an origin story, and it was generally well-received.

As I recall the opening of X-Man 1 was the origin of Professor X & Magneto. No?

 

[RoJoHen]

There is this weird assumption that superheroes need origin stories to establish their characters. I don't see why someone couldn't just make a Justice League movie and skip over the origin. Granted, aside from Batman, I'm not a huge DC fan, but I feel like this is something that would easily be doable. The first X-Men movie wasn't an origin story, and it was generally well-received.

As I recall the opening of X-Man 1 was the origin of Professor X & Magneto. No?

But the movie itself isn't an origin story. In the beginning of the movie, mutants are already established in the world, and the X-Men team has been around for many years. We didn't need to see how the X-Men became the X-Men in order to understand what was going on.

Similarly, we wouldn't necessarily need an origin story for Wonder Woman or Aqua Man in order to understand a Justice League movie.

 

[Trekker4747]

We might not, but general audiences might, further more we might want them to get stand alone movies.

Do you really think the general public has a positive look at Aquaman and see him as the King of Atlantis whose has a range of powers or do you think they see him as a lame guy who talks to fish and needs to stay wet?

Do you think they see Wonder Woman as near demigod with a range of powers that virtually make her the only woman who could possibly survive sex with Superman or do you think they see her as a woman who flies an invisible jet and spins in circles to change into her costume?

Stand-alone movies would be needed to not only establish these characters and how they need to be seen in a JLA movie for general audience but also because, well, fans of the characters would WANT to see a stand-alone movie for the characters.

The stand-alone movies might not need to be "origin movies" but movies to just establish the characters, how they're being handled in a DC-CU, how the actors are treating them and to build a rich and I diverse universe.

Fans of Iron Man, Thor and Captain America probably didn't need origin movies either, hell they too could also have just been introduced in an Avengers movie alone. But what Marvel did was make the characters vastly more dynamic and interesting by giving each of them their own movie first. Going into Avengers we know what kind of person "this Tony Stark" is and can see how he'll play off the others. His relationship with Pepper Pots means all that much more thanks to his movies.

In a JLA movie, sure, we'd go into it knowing Superman digs Lois Lane but it'd mean more if we actually get to see it in his own movie first and how a DC-CU is treating it.

 

[Disruptor]

Make a Super Friends movie. That's what people know.

The hardest part is finding a narrator worthy of Ted Knight.

 

[RoJoHen]

We might not, but general audiences might, further more we might want them to get stand alone movies.

When it comes to the DC universe, I'm just as clueless as the general audience. My experience with the Justice League is a few episodes of the Super Friends.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have standalone movies. I'm just saying that a decent writer could make a Justice League movie without requiring a whole series of movies to set it up.

 

[RAMA]

A good Wonder Woman movie could be patterned after the Thor movie, sprinkling legend with modern times. I'd love to see one with the right lead actress. I am convinced Green Latern has the right mix, but just needs a better focused story. Maybe we should have a "Green Lantern Corps" film. Other DC heroes who would work on screen: Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Aquaman-if it were as part of an Atlantean based origin.

 

[davejames]

I've always been more of a DC guy, but I frankly don't have any huge desire to see a JLA movie. The characters are written very differently (less damaged, more goody-goody), so you're not going to have quite the same clash of egos and personalities we saw in Avengers. And any attempt to recreate that would just come off as much more forced and contrived.

Not to mention that in many cases the DC characters are so powerful they don't really NEED to team up (Superman or Green Lantern probably could have handled the entire Chintari attack on their own in a few minutes). Which means you'd have to ramp up the threat to ludicrous and far-fetched proportions.

No, personally all I really want is just a cool, kickass Superman or Flash or Wonder Woman movie. At the most, maybe pair up a couple characters, but that's as far as I'd take it.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Back in the 80s DC's movies were the real deal, while anything from Marvel was going directly to CBS (or straight to bootleg video) on a shoestring budget. Avi Arad's ability to turn that around is nothing short of spectacular.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

We didn't need standalone movies for Han Solo or Obiwan in order to enjoy ANH. Good actors, good scripts, good direction, good effects, and most of all good character interplay will put the story across to audiences.

The JSA arc on Smallville was a good example of how it could be done. Forget all of Smallville's other faults, but think about how they introduced all the JSA characters, had everyone interacting, and managed to convey the history, that could easily be packed into one movie.

 

[Ian Keldon]

They should forget Justice League for now and instead start on a Batman/Superman flick. Then maybe introduce more JL characters as they do sequels.

Please...no more Supes/Bats...I'm sick of nothing but those two...

i just want a good live action Flash and/or Wonder Woman film.

Maybe Joss' success with Avengers will get Warners to reconsider his WW project...

We might not, but general audiences might, further more we might want them to get stand alone movies.

When it comes to the DC universe, I'm just as clueless as the general audience. My experience with the Justice League is a few episodes of the Super Friends.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have standalone movies. I'm just saying that a decent writer could make a Justice League movie without requiring a whole series of movies to set it up.

If you want to see what JL could be with the right creative driving the project, check out Bruce Timm's animated series Justice Leage/Justice League Unlimited.