Marvel/Netflix Daredevil Season 1

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wasn't going to bother watching this, having given up on AoS after season 1 and not really that interested in the character (I've seen the Affleck film, which has a few interesting moments but just didn't work for me). But after reading some of the comments here I might give it a shot. And I've love to see a Punisher variant if this helps that. I quite liked War Zone.
     
  2. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Alright, I'm signed up. If there's a commission involved, Bob The Skutter can claim it.
     
  3. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Personally, I liked the look of Daredevil way more than the...comic book? aesthetic Agents of SHIELD or Carter goes for.

    I'd argue at its worst SHIELD reminds me of 60s Batman, and that Carter was never really dynamic with its camera work or had its own identity. Daredevil looked like its own show to me, and for that I have to give it extra credit.
     
  4. Bob The Skutter

    Bob The Skutter Complete Arse Cleft In Memoriam

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    Enjoy. There's plenty on there worth watching if you decide to keep it.
     
  5. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    Holy crap! I just watched the Affleck movie and it's so insanely rushed! It's only 1h45m and they just race through stories so quickly. The actual plot doesn't really kick in until the hour mark and then it's all just a blur. Also the movie really shows its age with proto-CGI-stunt doubles and whatnot.

    Colin Farrell was hilariously over the top though :lol:
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Trust me, you watched the wrong cut of the movie. The 133-minute director's cut is a vastly superior, though still imperfect, piece of work.
     
  7. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Which I think is somewhat true. I don't think Matt Murdock is supposed to be 32. Assume college at 18 (four years) and Law School at 22 (three years). That makes Matt Murdock 25 (OK, probably close to 26 since the bar exam would be end of July and the results for the New York exam come out October-ish, iirc). So if Matt Murdock is 26 and was 10 at the time his father died (I'm only making a year after he was blinded since I don't recall the time frame), that's 16 years. Brian Patrick Wade is 36. If we assume the exact age of the actor, he would have been 20 at the time of this boxing match. If we make him slightly older, that would work fine too.

    Alright. I'll forgive this because of the word serendipitous. Although I'm still skeptical that pun wasn't intended ;)

    Yeah, I was surprised they didn't do that. It wouldn't have changed the scene at all and would have been a "ooh cool moment" without needing to do more.

    Yeah, I think that's somewhat fair. I know they were going for the triumphant moment, but it was a little small at the end considering all he accomplished so far. Still, I do like that the change in costume coincided with his redemption in the public eye.

    I think it made sense for the show they were going for. I hope Iron Fist, for example, embraces the identity of the character. But Daredevil is a guy without powers who puts on a mask to stop crime. I think an exploration of why is important. It's not just enough to say "the Avengers are doing it" because the Avengers don't stop petty crime. In this universe, it seems like Daredevil is the first.

    That's a common theme throughout Daredevil - particularly Miller's Daredevil - that I would have been disappointed had they changed it (I got worried in the beginning with the dumpster scene). I know the comparison will inevitably be to Batman and his "one rule," but this is something that the comics have explored at length. Miller's take tied it up with his love of the law. As a kid, he realized that society needed rules and some of those rules can't be crossed. This seemed to go with his religion as a major factor. There's a sense of morality he got from his father and his upbringing that, as much as the dark spirits brew inside him, he can't cross (because, if he did, he'd be Wilson Fisk and there'd be no turning back). As always, though, he comes close to that line. Even with the law explanation, he obviously breaks the law every day while trying to save it. But it's the strength of his character that, despite everything, he never crosses it.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Makes sense, thanks.



    If you know me at all, you're right to be skeptical. But if you know me at all, you know I have no shame when it comes to puns, so I wouldn't say it was accidental unless it was. ;)


    I was actually half-expecting that the change of costume would be done so that Matt could pretend to be a new hero who was separate from the black-mask guy. Although the whole "Devil of Hell's Kitchen" thing made that unlikely.



    Sure, but they could've had him adopt the identity earlier than the last act of the season finale, and in a way that was less of an afterthought to the story. That's what I'm talking about.



    Oh, sure, it doesn't need justifying to me. This is the way a superhero story should be told. The problem is with the movies and their casualness about killing. That's the problem with action movies in general -- they're too immersed in the thinking that bad guys have to die, and that tends to contaminate screen adaptations of superheroes. Either they just kill without caring, or they make noises about preserving life and then go "I don't have to save you" or whatever in the climax.
     
  9. Rat Boy

    Rat Boy Vice Admiral Admiral

    Darn. I could totally see Spider-Man calling him that if his path ever crossed with Fisk's.

    On the other hand, though, he was first caught via the legal system, something Foggy was pushing for after finding out Matt's secret.

    And is it just me or was the song playing during the arrest montage the same played during a similar montage in The Sum of All Fears?

    Well, don't forget secret identities in the MCU so far haven't really come up as a necessity. Steve Rogers has an exhibit at the Smithsonian dedicated to him. Tony Stark outted himself as Iron Man the first chance he had (and we saw that had some bad consequences in the sequel). Thor only used the fake driver's license in the first movie when he couldn't wield Mjolnir; I suppose he wouldn't be shy about introducing himself as Thor Odinson if asked. Natasha and Clint are spies, anyway. As for Hulk...who knows; seems the only people dangerous to Banner who know he's the Hulk are government entities.

    Daredevil's different in that he's doing this on his own without other costumed characters or government agencies backing him up and obviously considering Fisk's lethal reach it's a good idea for his identity to remain secret.
     
  10. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Well, just finished the first episode and it's good so far. Think I'll stick with it and get my free trial's worth at least.

    From what I've seen, I don't feel like they're disowning the MCU at all. What happened in New York came up at least three different times in the first hour. They're not name-dropping specific superheroes or having them do fly-bys, but that's consistent with shared universes in the comics themselves...the grittier street-level heroes seem to live in their own little dark-underbellied world (Batman excepted thanks to the Uber-Bat syndrome that has him involved in everything).

    I like that Daredevil seems to be pretty grounded in his capabilities so far. One aspect of the Affleck film that I didn't like was that his athletic abilities were too Spider-Manish.

    Interesting way to meet Karen Page, working her into the story like that...and she's cute.

    Guess I'm not avoiding general spoilers at this point, though I'm not reading stuff that's coded. That seems to be working out.

    I haven't gotten far enough to see this in action yet, but it does sound like they're succumbing to the "avoid codename" reflex needlessly in this case. Especially considering that in the first episode, even in a secret meeting between associates who all know his real name, they have to avoid saying it. Seems like a pseudonym would be very helpful in that situation.

    It's possible (though certainly not established yet) that there have been some non-powered vigilante types in the MCU over the decades since Captain America with whom we haven't been acquainted. It's also always possible that such a reference is alluding to costumed superheroes who are fictional within the fictional setting.

    OTOH, it could be a subtle nod in the direction of Spidey, who's the first hero I'd associate with that activity (which I don't think was coded when I first read this post, which would explain how I read it...though the quote function here also unveils the coded spoilers, so I have to be careful).
     
  11. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    well... only when it suits him, at other times he has Matt kill people in self-defence without it raising either any problem with Matt or even being worth mentioning.
     
  12. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    The only time I remember that is Man Without Fear. I don't recall Miller's original run having him kill anyone, but if you have a specific example, I'd be happy to hear it. Even in Man Without Fear, it was supposed to be a guilt gnawing at him - particularly the dear prostitute. One of the major themes was how he had to control his emotions and not lash out in rage. Because, when he did, he broke the rules (much like his father did when he hit him) and an innocent woman was dead because of it (although it got retconned (and brought into canon, ironically) by revealing she was actually alive and Typhoid Mary). Obviously, in that story, several people who attacked Matt with a knife ended up drowning. While I don't think it dwelled on it, I also don't think it made light of it.
     
  13. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No he stabs one in the guts with his own knife plus he kills the assassin at the end.

    As for his original run, in Born again, he has Matt blow up a helicopter with a rocket launcher killing the pilot.
     
  14. Khan444

    Khan444 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    He killed a guy in the Born Again storyline. But it was one of those "desperate situations, he really didn't have any other option" type of deals.
     
  15. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If I understand the general gist of 'AKA Jessica Jones' correctly, she was a (minor?) superhero for a time before going back to civvy street. So with that series coming up it would mean that she at the very least was active for a while, possibly even before Stark became Iron Man.
    Indeed, Fury did specifically say "d'you think you're the only super hero in the world?" By that point Thor hadn't shown up, Banner was still on the run from Ross, Rogers was still a Capsicle and Barton & Romanov were just SHIELD agents.

    So yeah, I think it's safe to assume there's been some limited superhero activity, though one wonders how this would work given SHIELD's policy about indexed gifteds and Hydra's policy of snapping up the useful ones.
     
  16. Fist McStrongpunch

    Fist McStrongpunch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :wtf:
     
  17. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    If they displayed no obvious powers, like Daredevil, they might have fallen beneath SHIELD's radar.

    Also, I read an article linked in another thread in which Kevin Feige was quoted as quipping that:
    “There is a young kid [already] running around New York City in a homemade version of the Spider-Man costume in the MCU, you just don’t know it yet."
     
  18. Saga

    Saga Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    well, one could make the argument that DD has abilities and not powers.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    One thing I'm wondering is if Daredevil has the same main-title sequence designer as Netflix's Marco Polo. They're both based on the idea of paint flowing into shapes. (Although the Polo credits are much more gorgeous.)

    And it's interesting that main-title sequences -- long ones -- have made a comeback with Netflix originals. On the one hand, it makes sense; the reason network TV mostly abandoned long title sequences is so that they could cram in more commercials, which isn't an issue here. But on the other hand, it gets kind of repetitive for a binge-watcher. Especially since streaming video doesn't let you do a proper fast-forward or rewind like a DVD or digital cable/DVR. (I really wish they'd figure out a way to fix that deficiency.)


    Yeah, Woll was well-cast. She reminds me of Donna from The West Wing, but prettier. I liked pretty much all the cast. Vondie Curtis-Hall was a great Ben Urich -- I forgot to mention him before.


    Excellent point. There may well have been earlier superheroes, or at least costumed heroes, in the MCU. The characters' familiarity with the idea seemed to imply that.

    Sure, they could be fictional too, but part of the character of the Marvel Universe is that its heroes are both real and fictional within the fiction. The in-universe Marvel publishes comics based on the real adventures of its heroes, though with the details changed from the comics in our world if they have secret identities.


    Which is hard to reconcile with Feige's latest announcement that Spidey will be a high schooler of 15 or 16 when he shows up in Captain America: Civil War next year.
     
  20. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well in the case of Jessica Jones at least, (according to wikipedia) her power set includes super-strength (as in lift up a car with ease), physical resilience just shy of invulnerability and flight. Pretty sure SHIELD and/or Hydra would have spotted someone like that if they were actively "super-heroing".
    I suppose it's possible SHIELD recruited her the way they recruited Mike Peterson and she voluntarily submitted to index restrictions when she retired. Perhaps Hydra left her alone because she was deemed unsuitable for "soft" recruitment and being watch too closely for them to scoop up and brainwash.

    Depending on the timescale that probably only *just* happened, or very nearly about to happen. Either way SHIELD isn't in much of a state to deal with them even if they have been noticed already, just as they're probably too busy and undermanned to look too closely at what's going on in Hell's Kitchen.

    Splitting that hair a bit thin, no? The show may be ambiguous about what was in those barrels (at least for now) but it's safe to say no normal human get's "abilities" like those without some fundamental renovations in their grey matter, if not their DNA code.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2015