Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by bbjeg, Apr 6, 2014.

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What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  1. A+

    20.5%
  2. A

    30.5%
  3. A-

    13.9%
  4. B+

    7.9%
  5. B

    13.2%
  6. B-

    2.6%
  7. C+

    2.0%
  8. C

    3.3%
  9. C-

    2.6%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0.7%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    2.6%
  1. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You mean like that Betty Ross character--the love of Banner's life as depicted in TIH? Gee, I wonder what happened a character that central to the Hulk's story? Oh, that's right, Joe Russo provided a half-assed excuse by claiming she was a victim of the "snap", but that's not an on-screen explanation for her life post-TIH. But please, continue to think the Hulk mess was just smooth, consistent sailing all along.

    As far as story points being referred to and/or carried forward, The First Avenger sprouted the Tesseract, Red Skull, Peggy Carter (and callbacks in the Agent Carter series), Super Soldier formula, Zola, Hydra (and its continued experiments in other films), Bucky's fate, Howard Carter, one of the major plots of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and on and on. That 1st Cap film was a major plot / continuity springboard for a wealth of events in many MCU productions to follow, far more than TIH.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
  2. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Interesting idea, what if they included Betty in Age of Ultron , and gave her pretty much all of Nat’s lines with Bruce?
    Have her on sight as Hulk’s handler?
    Would Ultron have abducted Betty in the end?
    What role would Nat then have instead to contribute to the story?
     
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  3. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One, she should have been the one Fury sent to contact him in The Avengers, not Natasha. By acknowledging a major character from TIH--one who was the love of his life, it would have worked to add major level of continuity / emotional weight to one of the main Marvel characters in Banner/Hulk, built on Betty's strength / sticking it out with Banner, no matter his struggles / need to run away. That relationship was well-established in TIH, and would have built a richer Banner..

    Yes, with Betty working with SHIELD as Banner's liaison and making sure Fury protected Banner from her father--all based on the continuation of their history, rather than the forced, go-nowhere Banner/Natasha "relationship".


    Regarding Natasha--interesting question, as she was never developed well in her early appearances (certainly not like her male counterparts) then the Avengers films forced that "relationship" . Take that away, and it would have required a real history and purpose written for her, which was barely covered by the time The Winter Soldier was scripted.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
  4. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He left her to live alone in British Columbia. It was right there in the movie at the end. Like how at the beginning, he left her and was alone in Rio. In Avengers he left her and was Kolkata. Natasha wanted something in Age of Ultron. And he left her to be not on this planet. Watching the movie version of the character the pattern is blindingly clear where Betty is and why. A fan wanting something to happen doesn't mean the character's path will follow that. Especially if it makes no sense for the character. And this all started right in TIH. When he left her. Again. (And if she ever did come back, hopefully a recast would have been in order as well, Liv was awful. I missed Connelly.)

    Where she was during the snap was irrelevant, she wasn't part of his life anyways. "Hulk just wants to be alone" and all that.
     
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  5. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The path would have been "blindingly clear", if someone would have written all of one line of dialogue about where Banner's feeling were about Betty and/or what her ultimate decision was post TIH, rather than Russo trying to Marvel-'splain her fate (i.e. the MCU never referring to / using the character again) in an interview long after her appearance.

    ..and "Liv was awful"--with a preference for Connelly? Yikes. There's not much from Ang Lee's film that was ever pleasing--other than the moment the end credits rolled, bringing it to its end.
     
  6. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Your line of dialogue was there, "Veronica" from Age of Ultron should have been more than enough to help us connect the dots. I like that we were actually given subtle dialogue instead of the sledgehammer people seem to need. Can't accuse the writers of not trying to pander, at least.

    Jennifer Connelly, regardless of the view of the movie, is heads and shoulders a better actor than Liv Tyler. I haven't known anybody that disagrees with that until now I suppose.

    Editing to add: But this last part is subjective and is just personal preference anyways, no need to get into how much better in almost every conceivable way, especially casting, the 2003 Hulk movie was to the trash that followed. Again, subjective. :p
     
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  7. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    I've always preferred Jennifer Connelly over Liv Tyler as Betty, something I always lamented back when I considered The Incredible Hulk one of the superhero films (I'll admit it doesn't quite hold up as well over the years but I still have a soft spot for it). Like you, I've always seen people feel the same way about Connelly but I guess there's always an exception.

    Subtly?! How dare you, sir!
     
  8. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    See, this right here is why I gave you a "like" when you first posted, but was forced to take it back.;)

    The casting of the Ross family is the only thing that's better about the Ang Lee film.
     
  9. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Haha I allow your removal of the like!
    Connelly and the legendary Elliott were so perfectly cast in my mind that anything following couldn't help but being a disappointment.

    But I adore that first Hulk film. The pacing, the psychology, the cinematography, everything. Bana was a little TOO distant in his portrayal, but as a fan of the Mantlo/PAD/Jenkins run, that movie hit the Hulk sweet spot for me. While the next Hulk movie started off on the wrong foot by cribbing from Bruce Jones' run, the first time I had to stop collecting the book (my run starts at issue 5, before it became Tales to Astonish) it was just so bad.
     
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  10. ashefivekay

    ashefivekay Captain Captain

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    So I'm not the only one who likes the first Hulk film on here? Nice.
     
  11. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The line about him feeling all of it taking over, and liking it..... I got a kick out of that.


    Is it perfect? No. Nothing is. Is it a take on The Hulk I really enjoyed and should actually watch again? Very much so.
     
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  12. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wha--? I do not know too many people who found anything positive to say about Ang Lee's Hulk film, including the casting.

    ...or, its proof that you're certifiably insane. ;)
     
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  13. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I absolutely hated that Ang Lee movie when I first saw it. Recently bought it on DVD at a thrift store for the sole purpose of checking out whether I still hate it. Will report in if I ever get around to it.
     
  14. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh come now. Even nothing nice to say of Sam Elliott?
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Only in Ghost Rider.
     
  16. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That Ang Lee film was such a giant pile of garbage. Its pacing and pretentiousness makes the damn Snyder Cut look like an MCU film in comparison. Eric Bana is a block of wood and Nick Nolte's performance feels like it belongs in a totally different movie. The climax is Hulk fighting a cloud, which comes after the "thrilling" confrontation with mutated dogs.

    Hulk is one of the superhero movies I legitimately despise the most. It takes everything I hate about artsy films (terrible pacing, the writing being up its own ass) and combines it with nauseating editing, generally bad acting (although I do like Sam Elliot) and bad action. Hulk and the Seth Green Green Hornet are actually probably the worst superhero films I've ever seen from a technical sense, and I've seen most of the mainstream ones. I might subjectively dislike some superhero movies more for doing things I dislike to characters I care about, but if I try to take how much I care or don't care about certain characters out of the equation, I legitimately think that Hulk and Green Hornet are the worst superhero films I've seen. I'd rather watch films like Fant4stic, Blade Trinity or even BvS before I'd watch either of those two films ever again.
     
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  17. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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  18. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sam Elliot has a boatload of fine performances on his resume, but Hulk is not on that list. I found him playing up the sinister angle more than alpha-megalomaniac Ross as seen in the comics.
     
  19. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

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    I'd like to see Sam Elliot as a live action Yosemite Sam.
     
  20. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^That would be amazing.