Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by bbjeg, Apr 6, 2014.

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What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  1. A+

    20.0%
  2. A

    33.1%
  3. A-

    13.8%
  4. B+

    7.6%
  5. B

    13.1%
  6. B-

    2.1%
  7. C+

    2.1%
  8. C

    3.4%
  9. C-

    2.1%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    2.8%
  1. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That was how I took the comment after I saw the movie, that it would potentially be the backstory for the 838, not the 616 version.
     
  2. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Magneto Was Right Moderator

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    Maybe adapt the House of X storyline and reveal that Xavier has been mentally blocking humans from knowing about or remembering mutants until they reveal themselves. Like in the comics, Xavier has learned that in other timelines the mutants always end up going extinct. It could even let them reference the Fox films which always seemed to end with mutants on the verge of extinction. But now they have their own nation and the world wakes up to realize that an entirely new human species with powers they can't understand has been living besides them.
     
  3. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Except

    I can't see X-Men TAS being part of Earth 838, since X-Men The Animated Series is canon with Spider-Man The Animated series, which established Steve Rogers as Captain America (no Captain Carter) and Baron Mordo as a white guy, and X-Men itself established Carol Danvers as Ms. Marvel, which doesn't fit with the Illuminauti's Maria Rambeau.

    I think that the 838 Xavier is a variant similar to the animated series Xavier, but that X-Men TAS itself couldn't have happened on Earth 838.
     
  4. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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  5. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I am too old to have seen the x-men cartoon so none of theis means anything to me. Interesting discussion though because I'm still a nerd.
     
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  6. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Elizabeth Olsen on playing Wanda in the film.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...lsen-interview-doctor-strange-2-b2072025.html

    Some pretty good insight into her frame of mind on Marvel

    She stands up for the large crews who work on these movies when people like Martin Scorcese downgrades the movies as nothing more than "theme park rides"
     
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  7. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The problem with the X-Men hiding away all these years is that it makes them colossal assholes. At least the Eternals had the excuse that Arishem would've stopped them if they tried to interfere.
     
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  8. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    Maybe the X-Men were helping out during all the Thanos stuff, but then Xavier mind-wiped everyone cause he's an assholewants to keep mutankind a secret.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You know, since in MCU chronology it's been, what, maybe 7-8 years since the Snap, you could say that the Snap somehow activated mutant genes in a segment of the population and they're only now starting to be discovered. People like Xavier and Logan could be rare, naturally occurring mutants who were small enough in number to remain secret, but now that they're proliferating, Xavier could open a school to guide them.
     
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  10. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    The way I would go is establish that there have been mutants all along, but in very small numbers. Say, one in every hundred million. Establish the x-gene as something that is actually present in large portions of the population, but it just needs to be activated somehow.

    Flash forward to the snap. As Rocket said, the entire planet was awash with strange energies that nobody had ever seen before. We know that infinity stone energy gave powers to Carol danvers, Wanda and Pietro maximoff and Monica Rambeau.

    The Xavier and Magneto of this time line are pre-snap mutants. Also, Wolverine, but I'll get to him in a bit. Xavier and Magneto managed to find each other and strike up a friendship with many theoretical discussions about an expanding mutant population. Now that that's actually happening, the discussions turn into arguments and we all know where the arguments will lead...

    That said, I would want the MCU X-Men movies to be about the students, rather than the Xavier Magneto conflict because that's all that FOX focused on. For that matter, I wouldn't even include Wolverine in the X-Men... At first.

    I would have two concurrent movie trilogies, one focused on the X-Men, and one focused on Wolverine through the years. The third X-Men movie in the trilogy would end with Wolverine joining the X-Men.

    Anyway, that's what I would do.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2022
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  11. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, having mutants be a globally new phenomenon with small numbers of historical mutants who remained hidden is simple, easy and fits perfectly with the MCU. (It also, incidentally, is exactly how mutants were portrayed in the comics.)

    This whole idea of Xavier mind-wiping everyone constantly may not be entirely out of character *for him*, but I don't want to see literally all the X-Men introduced as being complicit in the decades long mind wiping of the entire world. And it falls apart even more when you consider the fact that all the evil mutants would not cease to exist or be content with a normal life just because Xavier keeps people from learning about mutants, so everyone involved would also be complicit in making the entire world far more vulnerable to people like Magneto, Mystique, Sabretooth, Blob, etc.

    And the idea that they used to be public before Xavier made everyone forget is even worse, because now if you want to show flashbacks to famous MCU moments you're suddenly obligated to try to edit in a bunch of random mutants who weren't there in the original films which is never going to sit right, imo.
     
  12. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC the old explanation for differentiating mutants is that the potential has always been there, and certain individuals that got their powers by "accident" (Peter Parker, Bruce Banner, Reed Richards etc) did so because they had latent mutant genes that were activated (mostly by radiation, in those cases) where those without said latent genes would have simply died.
    Whereas the X-Men were mutants of the not so latent variety. Things got added to, retconned, and made way more convoluted over the decades, but that was the basic idea . . . mostly because having to come up with a unique origin story for each and every character to explain their powers was way too cumbersome, so "they're all just mutants" was a neat way to handwave it.

    As for how it all fits into the MCU; I tend to agree that having mutants be a tiny fraction of the population all this time is the way to go. You get to keep some of the historical mutants and not have to explain where they've been all this time because they were mostly just normal people living their lives. If any manifested their powers in a way that drew attention in the last 70 odd years then inevitably SHIELD/Hydra would show up, and that's the last anyone would see of them. Some may been known (like say, Logan) but it wouldn't be until much more recently that any commonality was discovered between them, probably when Xavier discovered the x-gene.

    I do wonder though if it might be a good idea to introduce the Morlocks first? A population of outcasts who couldn't pass for human suddenly coming out of hiding (some perhaps escapees from SHIELD/Hydra labs), demanding equal treatment. That seems like a better way to introduce the social message without having it start with a private militia made up of indoctrinated students of a private school, flying around in an unlicensed super-jet. (Let's be honest, from the outside, the X-Men looks an awful lot like an extremist cult.)

    Combine that with Earth being ground zero for several cosmic events over the last few years--not one but TWO infinity gauntlet snaps, the stillbirth of a celestial, and the repeated fracturing of the multiversal barrier--suddenly and spontaneously activating WAY more latent x-genes than usual (maybe ALL of them!) Leading to the post snap generation containing mutants as a non-trivial percentage of the population for the first time ever.

    You could also include the Inhumans too, as they're basically an offshoot of mutants that the ancient Kree tried to weaponize, with disastrous results. Maybe link in the Eternals end of things by having the origin of the x-gene be some kind of confluence of early humans and Celestial science? Maybe the first run at replacing the Deviants before the Eternals were created resulted in Apocalypse?
     
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  13. The Knappos

    The Knappos Commander Red Shirt

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    It wouldn't be difficult to seed background news reports and things into the current movies and TV shows with a Trump or Farage type **** lambasting the increasing previously niche but growing 'Mutant Menace' problem and screeching "Why do the Sokovia Accords not protect us from these monsters?" etc.

    In that way, we can all go "oooooh" when they pop up and by the time the X-Men pop up, they've been there simmering a while and can just be.
     
  14. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I really like this idea, although I really hope we don't get "students", I'm tired of teen heroes in the MCU. Honestly, I'd kind of like them to start off with the equivalent of Giant Size X-Men, where Xavier/Magneto and the original X-Men were all around pre-snap but secretly, and now Xavier needs a new team to deal with current events. This would allow us to get away from the original X-Men, while establishing they exist, while also getting a more diverse (and frankly more interesting) team. Drop Wolverine from the first line up obviously (I like the idea of keeping him separate, I like the character but basically all the FOX X-Men movies until First Class were focused on him), but a Storm/Colossus/Nightcrawler/Sunfire/Banshee/Thunderbird core team would be interesting, especially if they got actual character development.

    Now, some people would argue that Storm got more then enough screentime so they'd want to swap her out, but I think she's the one iconic X-Person you100% want/need on the MCU X-Men team, with a good actress and writing combination Storm can be great and even give the X-men ties to things like Wakanda if needed. I'd probably put Jubilee on the team to give the team a younger member, and Sunfire or Banshee could probably be swapped out for a fan favorite like Rogue, but make Rogue more like the comics to separate her from the FOX version. I'd leave Colossus on the team because I think Colossus gives you an easy excuse to tie Deadpool into the MCU X-Men if nothing else, even if you'd want to cast an actual physical actor for Colossus. Nightcrawler is great as the heart of the team, although they'd probably need to figure out how to make his makeup work better then the FOX versions.

    Or they could go full Jim Lee 90s X-Men (minus Wolverine) with the roster, complete with MCU versions of classic looks to help separate the returning characters from their FOX versions. They'd probably have to either swap out or change Psylocke if they did this, but I think the 90s comic team specifically is a bit better then just going live action X-Men TAS with the roster, although I would probably stick Jubilee on the team regardless for the newbie perspective (and I say Jubilee instead of other young X-Men characters because we've already seen Shadowcat and I think Jubilee would be cool to see in a significant live action role, but you could swap her with characters like Pixie, Armor, Surge, etc and get a similar perspective).
     
  15. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    These are some pretty good ideas. Even if the recent events haven't activated latent X-genes, it could just be that it's all built up to the point that the mutants decide that enough crazy stuff has happened since The Battle of New York, that they decide they don't need to hide any more. Only for them to be disappointed when they still end up running into constant prejudice from non-mutants.
    I didn't realize all of those characters appeared in the animated series.

    Moon Knight's producers have now moved on to the Fantastic Four movie. They did a good job putting that, so Fantastic Four should be in good hands.
     
  16. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just hope FF's villain(s), which hopefully don't include Doctor Doom in the first movie, are better then Ethan Hawke in Moon Knight, who might be my second least favorite MCU villain (after that random woman from Falcon & WS). It wasn't the actor's fault, but the character (whose name I can't remember) just sucked, his motivation was crap and it just brought everything down. I really liked Moon Knight and Marlene, but actually watching the show after the first few episodes was a struggle. It was similar to Falcon & WS actually, a great main character and supporting cast, struggling to get out from under a kind of terrible plot and a worthless main villain.
     
  17. YLu

    YLu Commander Red Shirt

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    You don't need a catalyst for why there are now more mutants than there used to be. That there will be more mutants over time is built into the premise. Next stage of evolution, yadda yadda. Their population is supposed to be increasing anyway. No need to complicate things with the Snap or activating latent mutants or whatever. Just say the natural gradual increase in the mutant population has finally gotten to the point where it's now a Thing.
     
  18. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    I think there have been Mutants in the MCU all along, but we know them as Inhumans. Professor X and everyone else might have been there and they probably even called themselves Mutants, but it all happened off screen. Mutants/Inhumans ... potato/tomato. That's all the explanation I need.
     
  19. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Except there hasn't been any evidence of Inhumans in the MCU aside from Agents of SHIELD (which the MCU has completely ignored, unfortunately) and Inhumans (which no one wants to remember).
     
  20. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    Exactly. The Inhumans have been ignored by the MCU so far, but we know they exist in the MCU. So why couldn't Mutants exist as well? As I said above, I think that Inhumans and Mutants are one and the same anyway, just different words for the ssame thing.

    And for those who insist that Agents of SHIELD is not canon ... that series was heavily tied into the movies on several occasions in the beginning and only started to go seperate ways when that whole time travel nonsense began. Up until then, there was nothing that indicated a seperate timeline/universe or whatever.
     
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