Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by bbjeg, Apr 6, 2014.

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What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  1. A+

    20.0%
  2. A

    34.6%
  3. A-

    12.3%
  4. B+

    6.9%
  5. B

    14.6%
  6. B-

    2.3%
  7. C+

    2.3%
  8. C

    3.8%
  9. C-

    1.5%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    1.5%
  1. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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  2. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So, the writer of the absolute worst episode of Rick & Morty is writing She-Hulk, and they cast someone who would work better as She-Hulk's assistant or maybe her unpowered BFF as She-Hulk. This is going to be a fucking disaster. Are we sure Jeph Loeb was actually fired? I only ask because this screams "idiots that hate the comics making a comic book show", which was Loeb's MO while running the TV division. This is going to make Iron Fist or Inhumans look like the first few seasons of The Flash, quality wise.

    I bet the show is going to use the dumb "Bruce Banner with lady bits" She-Hulk from the atrocious Mariko Tamaki book and Jason Aaron's putrid Avengers run, too. This really shows that the quality of Marvel TV isn't going to improve, its just going to be Loeb's style but without the asshole himself. Falcon & Winter Soldier and Wandavision might turn out ok because they star pre-established characters, but the shows introducing characters are completely fucked. I don't care if Ms. Marvel or Moon Knight's shows suck, because I don't care about those characters (although I want them to be good for the fans of those characters, I'm not invested in them at all). But She-Hulk is my favorite Marvel hero, and after being effectively dead since 2016(ish), it looks like the character won't be making a real comeback in any form of media in the forseeable future.
     
  3. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Granted about the budget, but in the last few years, I've been increasingly impressed by the high quality of special effects for television shows. Obviously Game of Thrones leaps to mind but also shows like WestWorld, Discovery, Carnival Row, His Dark Materials, Stranger Things, For All Mankind, just to name a few, all do incredible work with their budgets. Granted we haven't seen much footage yet for either show, but I imagine The Falcon and The Winter Soldier and WandaVision will have their own fair amount of special effects.

    It's not like Disney+ is going to skimp on the show with a well-known character (at least among fandom and even non-fandom will see the obvious connection) and a well-known actress in the leading role. Do we even know what the episode order is? 6, 8, 13 episodes? That'll help keep costs down.

    I'd be down with that. That'll certainly give the show flavor beyond the surface appearance of being a procedural (I'm sure it won't be but I can see how it might perceived as such before viewing).
     
  4. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Note that none of those examples required a fully CG photo-real human capable of emoting. It's literally the hardest thing to do since the human brain is hardwired to notice anything "off" when it comes to other humans. Even the Hulk effect in the movies is a little uncanny valley, saved mostly by the green and the exaggerated proportions. Trying to do that on even a lavish TV budget for more than one scene a season seems more trouble than it's worth. Like I said though, it might not even be that kind of show.
     
  5. StCoop

    StCoop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I doubt they'll go down the permanently (She)Hulked out route. It'll be more like 80% Ally McBeal 20% Hulk Smash.

    If it was me I'd be using the Dan Slott run as the jumping off point for the series but for some reason Disney never consult me before making any of their decisions....
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    If it were a commercial-network show, sure. But this is a miniseries for a premium streaming service, produced by the same people who make the feature films.

    Besides, Shulkie isn't the "smash" type, historically. What makes her a distinctive character is how unlike her cousin she is, how she's fully rational and calm and even happy being She-Hulk, preferring it to who she was as meek, timid Jennifer Walters. She basically starts out where Ruffalo's "Professor Hulk" is by the time of Endgame. Yes, I gather the recent comics have changed that to something more "smash"-y and angry, but that's not the iconic version of the character, and it's too much like what we've already seen before with the He-Hulk.
     
  7. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'll gladly take that bet because I don't even think for a minute they're going to go this route.
     
  8. Jack Skellington

    Jack Skellington Part-time poltergeist Rear Admiral

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    I kind of feel sorry for Alison Brie, who seemed to almost have it in the bag. But, on the strength of her sometimes astonishing work on Orphan Black, I wouldn't be surprised to see Maslany owning both roles. I just hope that the show is conceptualised, written and rendered to a quality suggested by the casting of the lead.
     
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  9. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    The only place I saw the Alison Brie rumor was Cosmic Book News, one of the most unreliable sources on the net.
     
  10. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Fair points, although Carnival Row is still a pretty good example. Granted neither of the two leads have such requirements (just wings and flight), but some of the supporting characters do. But, as you said, it's all academic until we know how the show is going to be structured.
     
  11. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

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    That was my first thought, that Jennifer herself was fairly tall. But if anyone can do (only?) two different personas better than anyone else, it's Tatiana.

    This one I really look forward to.
     
  12. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's not quite the same since he's not a fully human character, but I believe they've said K-2S0 will be a regular character on the Cassian Andor show, so Disney is willing to give the D+ shows the money they need to have CGI characters in prominent roles.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Sure, but unless something's changed, Jennifer and She-Hulk aren't really separate personalities like Banner and the various Hulks, just the same person with different degrees of self-confidence.


    I saw "the D+ shows" and thought for a moment that you were giving them a near-failing grade. :D They should've thought through that name a bit more...
     
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  14. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As you say, in that example the people looking creature designs are still mostly played by actual people in heavy prosthetics. Additions like wings and flight are a relatively simple matter of compositing. All of the 100% CG creatures are by design inhuman looking enough that the uncanny valley isn't a concern. See also: talking polar bears, creepy monkeys, shape-shifting animal-demon things etc...

    All very skilfully done of course, but the issue isn't the fidelity of the VFX as a whole, but the technical complexities of the very tricky effect in question: a human looking full CG body replacement that can emote from performance capture and read as photo-real in the same frame as actual people.
    Doable, of course, but involved and expensive even for a big budget movie, let alone a TV show, even a lavishly budgeted one. Even the Professor Hulk effect doesn't quite get there. It avoid the uncanny valley sure, but you can 100% tell it's CG and there's no mistaking him for a large person in green make-up. And that is literally bet best money can buy right now for ANY production.

    They might be able to *just* get away with a digital double in masters or wide shots, but mediums and singles would be VERY labour intensive.

    Bottom line: I suspect they'll be best served just avoiding going full She-Hulk as much as possible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  15. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If they want to avoid She-Hulk, wouldn't an easier decision have been doing ANY other of the hundreds of characters they have instead of her?

    I suspect we'll see more She-Hulk than not. They know what they're doing.
     
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  16. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    As per the usual drivel posted by a certain poster.
     
  17. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. First, you don't hire an actress of Tatiana's range and only have her play one half of the character. Second, we know they're doing the CGI character route with K2SO in the Cassian Andor series. Granted K2SO doesn't have to have changing facial expressions and such, but it does to use CGI tech. Unless, of course, Third, perhaps the CGI process has been refined to the point that it isn't as cost prohibitive as it once was. We also know that Disney plus has been using a lot of practical effects in lieu of what normally have been CGI effects in The Mandalorian. At any rate, I'm sure that Tatiana will be playing both aspects of the character and that Marvel wouldn't be producing this show if they weren't 100% certain and the effectiveness of their ability to pull off the character, whatever route they go.
     
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  18. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I apologize if some covered this up thread and I missed, but how physically different are her two personas? In most of the artwork I've seen, She Hulk looked pretty much the same as Jennifer Walters, just with green skin.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Jennifer Walters is 5'10", She-Hulk is 6'7" or more. She's called the Jade Giantess for a reason. Shulkie is also considerably more muscular and curvaceous, although of course a lot of comic-book characters are less muscular and/or curvaceous in live-action when they're played by naturally proportioned performers. (Maslany, meanwhile, is 5'4".)
     
  20. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

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    Comic book Wolverine was 5' 3" (and probably just as wide). Jackman is 6' 3", but I can't imagine a better Wolverine.

    And every artist draws characters so differently at times, it's hard to pin stuff like that down.

    Tatiana will effin' nail the acting parts without a doubt.

    She-Hulk #1.jpg
     
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