News Martin-Green: Star Trek And Diversity

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by AutoAdmin, Nov 14, 2017.

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  1. AutoAdmin

    AutoAdmin Machine of Death Administrator

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    A new news article has been published at TrekToday:

    For Sonequa Martin-Green, Star Trek is all about diversity. The actress realized that when she watched the show as a child. “What...

    Continue reading...
     
  2. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Keeping TNZ Shiny! Moderator

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    I really like her.
     
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  3. cultcross

    cultcross #NotAllMods Moderator

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    I completely agree with her, although I don't think Discovery ended up as diverse as they made out beforehand. In particular it has a streak of killing off women in main roles and replacing them with men. I'm also awaiting a theme of seeing oneself in the other with regard to the Klingon storyline. I'm assuming this is coming, but so far it's been pretty us and them.

    I wonder if Tyler/Voq ends up being the bridge between the worlds.
     
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  4. Jinn

    Jinn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If anything Discovery isn't diverse enough. 2/3 of the regulars credited in the title sequence are male, 2/3 are white, 5/6 are hetero and all of them are cis. Don't get me wrong, I really like this show, but a little more diversity certainly wouldn't hurt it in my eyes. Then again, I recently read multiple YouTube comments that explicitly stated that the show sucked because it starred a black actress. Seriously, at least attempt to hide your racism...
     
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  5. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Keeping TNZ Shiny! Moderator

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    Discovery is a decent start, but there is a long way to go.
     
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  6. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Another form of diversity they totally missed is differing forms of human neurology that are currently stigmatized and generally disrespected. Tilly would have been a great opportunity, but apparently those in charge have said she is not intended to be on the autism spectrum or anything else not currently considered neurotypical-normative.

    Kor
     
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  7. GeekUSACarl

    GeekUSACarl The Last Starfighter Premium Member

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    Though 100% of what she is saying I am into, and dig her outlook, I think diversity in star trek is often over stated. I don't think diversity in star trek is as big as they'd like it to be and I don't think star trek is "all about" diversity. It tackles diversity in some ways, but if star trek was truly "all about" diversity I think much of it would look very different.

    I think Trek could stand to be a lot more diverse before I'd ever agree that it was "all about" diversity.

    I realize in the article she didn't say "all about" diversity and that its kind of a tag line for the article and she is right about what trek stood for, and that the idea of all of us being no different than another was prevalent and very important. BUT, the show itself didn't show as much diversity as I think a lot of people like to credit Trek for.

    That isn't to say it HAS to be a showcase of diversity as we would like it to be today, I mean you truly can't please everyone and I get that, but I don't remember star trek displaying a truly diverse cast inside and out.
     
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  8. Satron

    Satron Commander Red Shirt

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    Do those people hate DS9 too?
     
  9. mickmike

    mickmike Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sonequa and Mary Wiseman were pretty amazing on after trek this week. You can tell that there is a lot of love in this cast.

    Diversity in trek still has some ways to go, but I feel it's in good hands with Harberts and Berg. At least we are not dealing with another Berman and Braga.
     
  10. galad2003

    galad2003 Commander Red Shirt

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    This shows you how no matter how diverse something is, it is not diverse enough for the SJW's. There is one straight white male in the regular crew and people still complain. Killing off the female security officer and replacing her with someone of Pakistani heritage and we have a "a streak of killing off women in main roles and replacing them with men."

    If people in this forum had their way Discovery would be a cavalcade of diversity as every minority and protected class was paraded in front of the camera for the sake of diversity in lieu of story and plot. It's not possible to have everyone in this show or it would become a steaming hot mess.

    We have two awesome strong openly gay characters that the writers so far haven't turned into a trope. We have a female African American lead. I have seen more people of color and aliens on this show than any other Trek and most of TV. I would prefer to keep the main cast small, tight and well developed with likable characters. (well I hate the main character but that's a post for another day).
     
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  11. cultcross

    cultcross #NotAllMods Moderator

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    Sadly I do remember the racist comments about DS9 being a story about a black man raising his son. DS9 also had what I consider to be the strongest female characters. But even DS9 missed a lot of opportunities for diversity, particularly with Odo, who despite being literally a puddle of goo has a rigid gender and resulting heterosexual preferences. Because NO SPACE HOMO.
     
  12. Satron

    Satron Commander Red Shirt

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    Not to mention Admiral Cornwell. The Burnham character, though much improved, isn't very likable. I'd be all for ditching her and replacing her with the good Admiral.
     
  13. GeekUSACarl

    GeekUSACarl The Last Starfighter Premium Member

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    This is why I don't take diversity in television entertainment seriously, it makes it much easier to enjoy.

    I probably talk about news, politics and issues 10 times more than I talk about tv or music or sci-fi. I get my daily dose of hand ringing over issues by noon, and I've over indulged by two, and by the time I get home or I get to listening to music, or watching tv, the last thing I want to do is take it as a social issue, im literally all social issued out. I don't care if it's a social issue I care about and promote, like diversity. I'm just done with it by then and am just looking for some unwinding entertainment. At the end of the day, it isn't real life.

    There is nothing wrong with music or tv or art in general as a vehicle for social change, it just aint my vehicle. That being said It is hard not to notice or discuss when it comes to Trek, trek is that big.
     
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  14. galad2003

    galad2003 Commander Red Shirt

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    With all the scandal coming out of Hollywood right now, it's hard to take anything they say about social issues seriously. It seems there is a huge sexual harassment culture out there, and the industry leaders are so predominately white men but yet they are preaching to us about diversity. Sorry, you have to lead by example before you can preach to me. Sorry for the side rant but I really want to see more top producers and directors in Hollywood become more diverse. That is far more important to promoting diversity than throwing some actors on screen.

    Right now,most Hollywood diversity seems like an attempt to check off some check boxes on a diversity form then go around bragging about it for press coverage than an actual attempt at diversity. I was really afraid DSC was going to do that before it launched.

    However, I really enjoy Stamets and Culbert's character and relationship. As a straight, white, slightly conservative 40 year old who is politically incorrect - I really enjoy their relationship. Two great, believable characters with great actors who have a healthy positive relationship. Maybe, gay characters were put in initially to check the diversity check box, I dunno. But the writers and actors are hitting it out the park on this one and really making it work.

    Don't treat your audiences as idiots. Write good stories with good characters and sure put diversity in it and we will accept it. Shove it down our throats for the sake of checking of box on the HR form and we will notice it. Thank Goodness DSC has done the former and not the latter so far.

    P.S. Stamet's and Culbert are the best thing on the show. Can we kill off Micheal and have the show about them, Tyler and Lorca? lol
     
  15. GeekUSACarl

    GeekUSACarl The Last Starfighter Premium Member

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    Kinda depends on who "they" is.

    The last woman we interviewed was Grace Lynn Kung, she is the woman who played the crazy prisoner who started the fight with Burnham in the mess hall in the third episode. If I recall correctly she stated she is of Korean descent. Now I don't know her personally but she seemed like a good, honest and pleasant woman. She made it a point when talking of SMG and co, as well as of people from other projects, that many are good people, genuinely good people. She didn't outright say this but I did get the impression from her, that for her work on Miss Sloan, she had a genuine interest in the issue being explored there.

    When I hear it from her, I tend to believe her and take her seriously, of course just going with my gut from my short conversation with her. When she says SMG, Isaacs and co are good people I wanna take her word for it too.

    I think I believe SMG too, again I don't know her personally but I believe I can take her seriously.

    Now Streep? Yeah, can't take her nearly as seriously.
     
  16. pl1ngpl0ng

    pl1ngpl0ng Commander Red Shirt

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    That would be great imho, as long as they where good actors. That would be quite a colorful bunch. =)
    Anyway.... I think discovery are doing a good job with diversety now, way better than many other shows.

    To be honest i wasnt quite sure at first about the gay relationship with stamets and doc, but they are portraying it very natural. I have kids and they are much more modern than me so im not super-old-fashioned but i think discovery really are doing some important work with this serie. It's already kinda working on me so
    ..
     
  17. ihno

    ihno Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I must admit I don't always get the diversity. Star Trek XIII and Independence Day II had gay couples in them but I totally missed that. Maybe they are only "gay" in the us american market, but they are still "straight" enought so you can sell the movie without problems in Russia or China. But it's nice that at least we get those clickbait-memos on the internet, if the cultural industry lacks the spine to stand up for their believes and show something that doesn't need explanation.

    But it's obviously very important. In the 70s the main roles were mostly white males with model looks between 20 und 28, that you can't keep apart and today they are mostly white females with model looks between 20 und 28 that you can't keep apart either. An important improvement. Like with Star Wars. Small, old or "fat" people are still not to be seen on the screen, maybe they're not important enough.

    But I have learned how many different "races" there are in US-american english.

    As for disco: I could not "connect" to Michael or any other of the characters, since the writers made them all very unlikeable. I liked the Captain of the Shinzu but she went quickly and that "Goldfinger/Dr.No"type Captain of the Discovery made me quit the show after 3,5 episodes.
     
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  18. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    Most of it is a marketing gimmick disguised as being socially progressive. And they're doing it because, more often than not, it sells. For some people the enjoyment of content is more of a function of literal 1:1 identification and the quality of the storycraft comes a distant second.
     
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  19. Jinn

    Jinn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think they specifically said "actress", so maybe black male main characters are... After reviewing the comment section of the trailer video on YouTube there seem to be more comments aimed at SMG's (and Yeoh's) gender than her race like these two:
    The captain is nowhere near as potent as Kirk or Picard. Her speech and body language is weak and unbecoming of that rank. She is chinese and can barely speak english with the command required of a captain. The second in command is also a weak and emotional woman...Sigh... It like watching two vaginas tying to create logic from a soup of oestrogen infused emotions.

    women? seriously? Are you stupid? Disney destroyed Star Wars and now want to destroy Star Trek

    Although I could imagine the second one to be a troll since Disney has nothing to do with DSC.
     
  20. Feron

    Feron Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, I have found it sad that apparently for many all that matters to them is if their particular identity group of choice gets top billing.

    Whatever happened to Dr. Martin Luther King's dream of everyone being judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin ( or sexual preference, etc.)? SMH.
     
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