Lt. Kelby (formally Commander Kelby)

[Joel_Kirk]

I remember this officer from 'In a Mirror Darkly' (where he bit the dust, or rather...the Gorn bit him severly) and I had just saw this character in 'Bound'...

According to Memory Alpha, there is nothing that states what happened to this character.

Personally, I didn't like this character. I understand he was supposed to be in charge of Engineering?

With his attitude, I would hate to have to rely on him to give me power to the weapons or warp engines at a minute's notice.... {Moreover, I would hate to have to work with the guy, as the question begs: 'Why are you here, you seem to want to be somewhere else?'}

He is on my list with Sela as a character I find annoying, and I would like to see come to a grisly end. {That sounds so mean, I know.}

What did some of the other posters think of this character? And, how do you suppose he attained the rank of Commander, even for a short time?

 

[ChristopherPike]

Yep. He was little more than a place holder for Trip wasn't he? I can't say I liked him either... but he written unsympathetically. Archer would call down to Engineering and be kept waiting longer for a reply, than when Tucker was onboard.

How did he get to be a Commander so quick? No idea... but they're all doing it nowadays. Young punks. Maybe in an alternate reality Kelby was a legendary hero and Daniels put in a good word...

 

[Red Ranger]

It would have been more interesting if Kelby were written as a competent officer who knew his stuff that Archer had trouble accepting only because he wasn't his good friend. I don't remember what happened to him after Tucker returned from his stint as Columbia's chief engineer. Did he then become Columbia's chief engineer? -- RR

 

[Count Zero]

Well, Archer couldn't remember his name in one scene, so I think his attitude might have been due to the animosity he might have experienced. Also, in 'Bound', everyone was behaving weirdly and irresponsibly.
I always assumed he became the chief engineer of the Columbia, but I'm not sure it was ever stated. I don't think he's on Columbia in the books (it's been a while since I read the Destiny trilogy).

 

[commodore64]

I thought he was incredibly misused. They kinda painted him to be a jerk and then Coto indicated he thought the Trek community would be angry if he (indeed) was the guy who told Terra Prime that T'Pol and Trip had a one-time thing. That so doesn't make sense.

I think the best thing to do would've been to make him a bad guy and keep it that way. Otherwise, it just seems Trip promotes unqualified ding dongs. I don't think he would.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I don't think they thought the Trek community would be angry, I believe the Reeves-Stevens just said that Coto felt sorry for him because they were always picking on him.

He was poorly written, but his job was just to be a placeholder for Trip. I don't think he was ever shown to be incompetent at his job, just not close to as good as Trip.

IIRC, early in the show, there was some other engineer who was shown as Trip's second in command, but she disappeared. Ideally, I would suggest that Kelby transfered to the ship either after the Xindi attack or after they returned from the Expanse. If Enterprise went on, he'd probably be written out, but there's no reason why he couldn't have simply been second in engineering behind Trip.

 

[Danny99]

It always bothered me that he wasn't the Terra Prime operative. He had a reason to do it with Trip always seeming to treat him like shit. Instead, we got a no name Ensign who got two seconds and then commits suicide.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

It would have been more interesting if Kelby were written as a competent officer who knew his stuff that Archer had trouble accepting only because he wasn't his good friend. I don't remember what happened to him after Tucker returned from his stint as Columbia's chief engineer. Did he then become Columbia's chief engineer? -- RR

Well, Archer couldn't remember his name in one scene, so I think his attitude might have been due to the animosity he might have experienced. Also, in 'Bound', everyone was behaving weirdly and irresponsibly.
I always assumed he became the chief engineer of the Columbia, but I'm not sure it was ever stated. I don't think he's on Columbia in the books (it's been a while since I read the Destiny trilogy).

@Red Ranger and Count Zero:

The Destiny trilogy doesn't mention Kelby serving on the Columbia...

 

[commodore64]

I don't think they thought the Trek community would be angry, I believe the Reeves-Stevens just said that Coto felt sorry for him because they were always picking on him.

Nope. I've seen it in a few places, but in the Speculative Fiction wiki is the first instance:

Originally, Kelby was going to be the Terra Prime spy in "Demons" and "Terra Prime", but Manny Coto decided the fans had come to like Kelby too much, so they decided to create Ensign Masaro.

Reeves-Stevens, I believe wanted Kelby to the be the bad guy.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It's the writer's audio commentary (the one on UPN, not sure if it's on the DVD too) where they go into detail with it. Yes, the Reeves-Stevens wanted him to be the villain. I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure they didn't actually say "fans had come to like him". I thought it was more that Manny Coto had felt sorry that he was always picked on. But I could be wrong, it's been a long time.

 

[gblews]

It would have been more interesting if Kelby were written as a competent officer who knew his stuff that Archer had trouble accepting only because he wasn't his good friend. I don't remember what happened to him after Tucker returned from his stint as Columbia's chief engineer. Did he then become Columbia's chief engineer? -- RR

He stayed on Enterprise and eventually redeemed himself in Terra Prime.

I didn't think Kelby was mistreated. T'Pol referred to him as a "fine" engineer in Bound when she was trying to get Trip to stay.

Kelby wasn't the only guy on the ship who fell under the influence of the Orion's pheromones and did something stupid as a result. Archer, Reid, Mayweather, and the guards who let the "girls" out of the brig all did dumb stuff while under the influence.

"Lieutenant" or "Lieutenant Commander" or "Commander" Kelby (whichever it was supposed to be), always gets a much worse rap than he deserves.

 

[Red Ranger]

^Would've made much more sense if Kelby were a lt. cmdr. At that rank, he would've been Trip's immediate subordinate. -- RR

 

[gblews]

^Would've made much more sense if Kelby were a lt. cmdr. At that rank, he would've been Trip's immediate subordinate. -- RR

Thats what made the whole thing about Kelby's rank so goofy, both he and Trip acted like Kelby was a subordinate. It seemed pretty obvious that the intent was to make Kelby a lesser rank than Commander, but someone forgot to take that out of the shooting script and someone else forgot and gave Kelby "commander" pips.

Just one of those little production gaffs that proves everyone is human, I guess. Don't believe I've ever heard Manny or any of the staff address the issue.

 

[commodore64]

It's the writer's audio commentary (the one on UPN, not sure if it's on the DVD too) where they go into detail with it. Yes, the Reeves-Stevens wanted him to be the villain. I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure they didn't actually say "fans had come to like him". I thought it was more that Manny Coto had felt sorry that he was always picked on. But I could be wrong, it's been a long time.

Ahh - sorry. I think we're remembering the same thing. I think Coto made a huge mistake.

gblews, I always took the "gaff" as an unintentional slight from Trip. Trip's used to being the guy in charge of Engineering for Enterprise. He sees Kelby as being a little less experienced and then called him by a lower rank accidentally; I mean I think Trip was thinking "Wow, he's a pup," but hadn't intended to slight the guy. Kelby, who felt like he had something to prove, got bent outta joint over it.

What I can't figure out is why Trip would recommend Kelby for promotion; the guy turned out to be a dork. And .. what happened to Rostov?

 

[gblews]

gblews, I always took the "gaff" as an unintentional slight from Trip. Trip's used to being the guy in charge of Engineering for Enterprise. He sees Kelby as being a little less experienced and then called him by a lower rank accidentally; I mean I think Trip was thinking "Wow, he's a pup," but hadn't intended to slight the guy. Kelby, who felt like he had something to prove, got bent outta joint over it.

There really was no on screen evidence that Trip's calling Kelby "Lieutenant" was meant to be a slighting of Kelby.

What we saw on screen actually argues against that. From their first interaction in Engineering, Trip appears to officially be Kelby's superior officer. Whats more, instead of Kelby pointing out to Trip that they were peers and therefore Trip had no official right to give him orders, Kelby accepts the superior position Trip assumes.

Then Trip calls him "Lieutenant", which at that point appears quite natural because of the dynamics of the relationship between the two, but goes against the fact that we see Commander's pips on Kelby and prior to that, Archer refers to Kelby as "Commander". I dont' see anything on screen that would make Kelby's rank confusion anything other than a mistake.

What I can't figure out is why Trip would recommend Kelby for promotion; the guy turned out to be a dork. And .. what happened to Rostov?

I think its reasonable to assume Trip recommended Kelby to take over running engineering. But as I've previously written, other than answering Archer's call a little late, we really don't see Kelby do anything that shows him to be incompetent as an engineer. All we see is some frustration from Archer (because he's not Trip?)about the late response, but all the other bad stuff we see from Kelby was caused by the Orions.

Other than the aforementioned, all we see is Kelby being "a fine engineer", as per T'Pol's assessment (and probably Trip's too, thus the recommendation), in Terra Prime.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It's the writer's audio commentary (the one on UPN, not sure if it's on the DVD too) where they go into detail with it. Yes, the Reeves-Stevens wanted him to be the villain. I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure they didn't actually say "fans had come to like him". I thought it was more that Manny Coto had felt sorry that he was always picked on. But I could be wrong, it's been a long time.

Ahh - sorry. I think we're remembering the same thing. I think Coto made a huge mistake.

Personally, I think it was the right decision to have it not be Kelby, they just needed to set up the other character so he wasn't out of the blue (I believe he was in a background scene earlier and that's it, he needed to have lines in a couple of episodes or something). The reason I thought it shouldn't be Kelby was because it was too obvious (he's the fuck up every other episode, why not have him be the bad guy too).

 

[commodore64]

Gblews, I think we see plenty of him being ill prepared for being a commander. Maybe his engineering skills are okay, but ... I think it takes more than just a knowledge of the engines to be top dog in Engineering.

Alidar, I don't know. I think they pretty much classified Kelby as a putz -- he acted petulant when Trip slighted him unintentionally, acted whiny in Bound, etc. I was pretty ready for him to have a purpose other than to make me wish Trip was back on Enterprise.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

It's the writer's audio commentary (the one on UPN, not sure if it's on the DVD too) where they go into detail with it. Yes, the Reeves-Stevens wanted him to be the villain. I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure they didn't actually say "fans had come to like him". I thought it was more that Manny Coto had felt sorry that he was always picked on. But I could be wrong, it's been a long time.

Ahh - sorry. I think we're remembering the same thing. I think Coto made a huge mistake.

Personally, I think it was the right decision to have it not be Kelby, they just needed to set up the other character so he wasn't out of the blue (I believe he was in a background scene earlier and that's it, he needed to have lines in a couple of episodes or something). The reason I thought it shouldn't be Kelby was because it was too obvious (he's the fuck up every other episode, why not have him be the bad guy too).

^^

I do agree...it would have been too, too obvious...no matter how he behaved in previous episodes.

 

[Red Ranger]

^Would've made much more sense if Kelby were a lt. cmdr. At that rank, he would've been Trip's immediate subordinate. -- RR

Thats what made the whole thing about Kelby's rank so goofy, both he and Trip acted like Kelby was a subordinate. It seemed pretty obvious that the intent was to make Kelby a lesser rank than Commander, but someone forgot to take that out of the shooting script and someone else forgot and gave Kelby "commander" pips.

Just one of those little production gaffs that proves everyone is human, I guess. Don't believe I've ever heard Manny or any of the staff address the issue.

ST, from the beginning, had errors like that all the time. The most famous is Spock's original rank. In the TOS rank scheme, two full braids stood for a full Commander, yet in a couple of the early eps, he's referred to by the specific rank, Lieutenant Commander Spock. They corrected that by the second season.

Also, in the first season of TOS, two characters who were also specifically addressed as lt. cmdr. also had the two full braids: Finney and Giotto.

In TNG, they were better, but Chief O'Brien's pips changed a number of times, even when he was on DSN, when they finally came up with a specialized chief petty officer pip.

There were a couple of other costuming errors in TNG, but one-time gaffes. Once, Captain Picard had just three pips (commander rank) in a scene. Geordi in a scene had two "hollow" pips and one solid one, which was not a valid configuration. And the most egregious TNG one ep mistake was giving Data lt. j.g. pips in the past scenes when he had been a lt. cmdr. for the whole seven-year run.

And of course, there's VOY and Tuvok's and Paris's pips. Tuvok had lt. cmdr. pips but was clearly called lt., while Paris had a full lt.'s pips, but next season, he wore lt. j.g. pips.

With the exception of O'Brien (who I mentioned above), everyone else in DSN had the proper rank insignia, corresponding to the titles they all had.

Red Ranger