Looking for some obscure, early novels knowledge...

[Phantom]

Starting with GR's novelization of TMP, the early Trek books made frequent references to and use of the so-called "New Human" movement.

I never quite got what that was, or why it was often used as such a threat. In some books it seemed like a social philosophy, but in other books it almost felt like "psychic Borg" with people being overtaken and subsumed into a hive-mind.

Anyone know of a good place to find more exact info about the New Human movement?

 

[Christopher]

The TMP novelization and Triangle by Marshak & Culbreath are the only two books that mention the New Humans, as far as I'm aware (aside from maybe a brief nod in my Ex Machina). There's not much to say about the idea that wasn't in the TMP novel. There's a bit more about them in The Making of ST:TMP, in the Roddenberry memo about Willard Decker's character and backstory; Decker was supposed to be intrigued by the idea of humans developing a collective consciousness, which was why he was drawn to the idea of merging with V'Ger. But I think the novelization spells out Roddenberry's idea behind the New Humans as much as anything does. Triangle takes a different slant on the idea, of course, exaggerating them into a more powerful and threatening force, because everything in Marshak & Culbreath's books was exaggerated to the most melodramatic level possible. No other author has ever really picked up on the concept. It was probably just a mix of Roddenberry starting to buy into his own hype as a visionary futurist and the influence of the "higher consciousness" ideas that were popular in the '70s.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

I'm in the midst of reading 'A Flag Full of Stars' and there's a passing reference to a school for New Humans, but that's about it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm in the midst of reading 'A Flag Full of Stars' and there's a passing reference to a school for New Humans, but that's about it.

^Yes, I thought there was at least one other reference.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/New_Human

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Marshak & Culbreath were not only rather melodramatic, but also a tad confusing at times (I probably read both of their "Phoenix" novels two or three times, and there were still passages I couldn't make head or tail of, and that make the most confusing moments of Ford's How Much for Just the Planet seem completely clear).

Then, of course, we had the decidedly libertarian-leaning Diane Carey pulling very strongly in the opposite direction from the collectivism of the "New Human" movement. (Not that Piper, Sarda, and Sandage weren't much more compelling characters than anything Marshak and Culbreath ever wrote, but she did tend to wear her politics on her characters' sleeves, especially in her early works.)

 

[Timewalker]

Marshak & Culbreath were not only rather melodramatic, but also a tad confusing at times (I probably read both of their "Phoenix" novels two or three times, and there were still passages I couldn't make head or tail of, and that make the most confusing moments of Ford's How Much for Just the Planet seem completely clear).

Marshak & Culbreath's books aren't much better than the more melodramatic K/S-lite fanfic.

As for How Much For Just the Planet?... actually, I completely changed my mind on that one. When I first tried to read it, it was just so ridiculously confusing and I nearly took it back to the store. But later I realized that it's actually a prose version of a Star Trek-themed operetta, and the way to really enjoy it is to imagine that you (the reader) are sitting in the auditorium of a theatre, watching the novel being performed on stage as an operetta. It's like a novelized version of a Gilbert & Sullivan/TOS crossover piece of musical theatre.

When you approach it from that angle, this book is a hoot!

Then, of course, we had the decidedly libertarian-leaning Diane Carey pulling very strongly in the opposite direction from the collectivism of the "New Human" movement. (Not that Piper, Sarda, and Sandage weren't much more compelling characters than anything Marshak and Culbreath ever wrote, but she did tend to wear her politics on her characters' sleeves, especially in her early works.)

Diane Carey... Battlestations/Dreadnought are absolutely the worst cases of Mary Sue fiction that ever got published as pro novels. The rest of her books aren't any better.

In my opinion, of course. YKMV.

 

[ClayinCA]

Diane Carey... Battlestations/Dreadnought are absolutely the worst cases of Mary Sue fiction that ever got published as pro novels. The rest of her books aren't any better.

In my opinion, of course. YKMV.

I know this is off-topic, but I do have to defend Diane Carey's Final Frontier (and to a lesser extent, its follow-up Best Destiny). Final Frontier is a great yarn, functioning as well as a Tom Clancy-type thriller as it does a Star Trek novel, and wonderfully evoking the dangers of those early days of Starfleet and space exploration. I always wished they'd done a movie version.

Apart from those two Diane Carey books, though, I pretty much agree with you. Ghost Ship, the first Next Generation novel, was so bad I almost quite reading the books.

 

[Christopher]

Ghost Ship, the first Next Generation novel, was so bad I almost quite reading the books.

To be fair, Carey wrote that under the handicap of knowing nothing about the show beyond the series bible and the pilot script, since it was written well before the premiere in order to come out in a timely fashion. And a lot about the bible fell by the wayside in the actual show, so the book's inconsistencies with the show's details and style were through no fault of Carey's. I recall finding it a somewhat intriguing novel posing its characters with a very challenging moral dilemma.

 

[Relayer1]

Whatever happened to the 'New Human' movement, it evidently happened before TNG...

 

[Christopher]

It never existed outside the TMP novelization and one or two novels that referenced it. No surprise that it never showed up in canon, any more than other TMP-novel concepts like the sensceiver brain impants and the dammed/drained Mediterranean basin.

 

[tomswift2002]

To be fair, Carey wrote that under the handicap of knowing nothing about the show beyond the series bible and the pilot script, since it was written well before the premiere in order to come out in a timely fashion. And a lot about the bible fell by the wayside in the actual show, so the book's inconsistencies with the show's details and style were through no fault of Carey's. I recall finding it a somewhat intriguing novel posing its characters with a very challenging moral dilemma.

It's funny how Ghost Ship, when you look at the copyright date, didn't come out till nearly a year after the novelization of Encounter At Farpoint (Farpoint hit shelves in October 1987, Ghost didn't hit till July 1988, unlike the later series like DS9, Voyager and Enterprise where the first regular novel was out within 3 to 4 months of the pilot episode novelization). In other words, there was an 8 month gap between the release of the two books.

 

[ClayinCA]

Ghost Ship, the first Next Generation novel, was so bad I almost quite reading the books.

To be fair, Carey wrote that under the handicap of knowing nothing about the show beyond the series bible and the pilot script, since it was written well before the premiere in order to come out in a timely fashion. And a lot about the bible fell by the wayside in the actual show, so the book's inconsistencies with the show's details and style were through no fault of Carey's. I recall finding it a somewhat intriguing novel posing its characters with a very challenging moral dilemma.

True, and I do bear that in mind when discussing the book. Regardless of the reason, though, I just can't reconcile that book with the TNG stories I watched on television. But you're quite right that most of the things I really dislike about the book are not Diane Carey's fault.

 

[Relayer1]

It never existed outside the TMP novelization and one or two novels that referenced it. No surprise that it never showed up in canon, any more than other TMP-novel concepts like the sensceiver brain impants and the dammed/drained Mediterranean basin.

I don't know. I wouldn't have been surprised to see it in early TNG.

 

[Christopher]

I sometimes wonder if Roddenberry intended the perfected, conflict-free humans of TNG to be the New Humans, or at least something similar -- without the group-consciousness element, of course, but in the sense of being more evolved than the wild 'n' wooly "throwback" humans represented by Kirk-era Starfleet.

 

[Relayer1]

I sometimes wonder if Roddenberry intended the perfected, conflict-free humans of TNG to be the New Humans, or at least something similar -- without the group-consciousness element, of course, but in the sense of being more evolved than the wild 'n' wooly "throwback" humans represented by Kirk-era Starfleet.

Exactly. The humanity represented by the crew in TNG's first season seemed to be somewhat different to earlier and later versions...

 

[publiusr]

I sometimes wonder if Roddenberry intended the perfected, conflict-free humans of TNG to be the New Humans, or at least something similar -- without the group-consciousness element, of course, but in the sense of being more evolved than the wild 'n' wooly "throwback" humans represented by Kirk-era Starfleet.

Well the idea of new humans can't be genetic--due to the fear we see after the Eugenics wars and what Bashir faced--not to mention the humans who others to age as in TNG.

One of the things I would like to try in real life--if I were a leader of a different world--might be to raise a host of young people and not tell them a damn thing about their history.

People of all races who have no ties to old problems bigotry. A modified Republic from Plato.

A reset.

 

[Christopher]

Well the idea of new humans can't be genetic--due to the fear we see after the Eugenics wars and what Bashir faced--not to mention the humans who others to age as in TNG.

Except that the idea of New Humans was created in the 1979 TMP novelization, and the idea of a Federation ban on genetic engineering wasn't created until a 1997 DS9 episode. Remember, TNG's "Unnatural Selection" showed Federation scientists engaged in genetic engineering, and there wasn't a single word about it being illegal. "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" was a retcon late in the game. So if we're evaluating Roddenberry's thinking behind the New Humans in '79, or whatever his intent may have been in developing TNG in '87, then an idea that originated in '97 has no bearing on that analysis.

One of the things I would like to try in real life--if I were a leader of a different world--might be to raise a host of young people and not tell them a damn thing about their history.

People of all races who have no ties to old problems bigotry. A modified Republic from Plato.

A reset.

That would be a terrible idea, because then they'd just make the same mistakes all over again. History gives us insights that let us avoid the mistakes of our ancestors. Ever since the Holocaust, for instance, the mantra of the Jewish people -- of all right-thinking people -- has been "Never forget." Never lose the knowledge that such atrocities are possible, so that we can recognize the warning signs when they appear. And look at how Holocaust denial is spreading in some circles today, how some factions want us to forget so that they're free to spout the same rhetoric. Erasing history is a tactic of the evil and corrupt, because the ignorance of others gives them strength.

Yes, some people use history as an excuse for bad behavior, but ultimately it's not history that made them act the way they did -- they made their own choices and just blamed history. The only way the world gets better is if people take responsibility for their own choices, and part of being responsible is choosing to be informed. Lack of knowledge is never the answer.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Except that the idea of New Humans was created in the 1979 TMP novelization, and the idea of a Federation ban on genetic engineering wasn't created until a 1997 DS9 episode. Remember, TNG's "Unnatural Selection" showed Federation scientists engaged in genetic engineering, and there wasn't a single word about it being illegal.

Not to mention that TMP's Arcturians were supposedly from a race of clones, who could be mobilized as emergency troops at short notice if needed. [Press Release notes for ST:TMP]

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

Except that the idea of New Humans was created in the 1979 TMP novelization, and the idea of a Federation ban on genetic engineering wasn't created until a 1997 DS9 episode. Remember, TNG's "Unnatural Selection" showed Federation scientists engaged in genetic engineering, and there wasn't a single word about it being illegal.

Not to mention that TMP's Arcturians were supposedly from a race of clones, who could b mobilized as emergency troops at short notice if needed. [Press Release notes for ST:TMP]

Was that initiated during Federation President Palpatine's administration?

 

[Sci]

Except that the idea of New Humans was created in the 1979 TMP novelization, and the idea of a Federation ban on genetic engineering wasn't created until a 1997 DS9 episode. Remember, TNG's "Unnatural Selection" showed Federation scientists engaged in genetic engineering, and there wasn't a single word about it being illegal.

Not to mention that TMP's Arcturians were supposedly from a race of clones, who could b mobilized as emergency troops at short notice if needed. [Press Release notes for ST:TMP]

Was that initiated during Federation President Palpatine's administration?

Yes. He needed to create a Grand Army of the Federation with the support of the Federation Councillor for Naboo to counter the threat from separatists on Axanar.