Living Witness.

[Data Holmes]

OK, two part post.

One, do you think this was Voyager's attempt at a mirror'vers episode?

And two, I still think that the first part of this episode with the incorrect portrayal of the voyager and her crew is awesome. I so wish they had done more of that crew.

 

[DrTaylor]

Question 1: No. Not particularly, no.

Question 2: Yes it was awesome. More would have made it too much of a good thing.

My question: Does anyone else feel like they gypped us by not having a real end to The Other Doctor? And what if he did make it back to Earth? What do you think the reaction would be? Because I bet it wasn't "Hello, would you like some Futuristic Earl Grey Tea? The Time Fleet got it from Jean-Luc Picard's replicator this morning!"

 

[Peacemaker]

^Yes, and I'm still not completely sure about that other Doctor. Where exactly does he fit in the scheme of things in ST:V? Where, exactly did he come from? I never did quite get that bit.

 

[Is It Over Yet?]

1. Yes, this was Voyager's run at the mirror universe, without actually going to it. Which was probably a wise move on the writer's part as DS9 went to that well a few too many times.

2. Yes, the evil Voyager crew was awesome.

 

[nx1701g]

1.) In a way yes, in a way no. I think it was more along the lines of explaining how things can become misconstrued throughout history - how things can be altered. It was also about how history is written by those who are victorious.

2.) I like the evil Voyager crew and could have seen the show going that way in the early seasons if they would have done the stories where the crew had to struggle to survive.

3.) The "other" doctor depends on which one you're referring to. The android doctor could have come from stories of how he was an artificial man and, in many cases, doctors of war cultures are depicted as evil mad scientist types. If you're referring to the backup copy of the EMH, the backup was a 'living witness' who could put the story straight. He was the person that ended the war between those two species that Voyager got embroiled in because he had evidence that proved the one group innocent.

 

[DarthTom]

hutt359 said:
And two, I still think that the first part of this episode with the incorrect portrayal of the voyager and her crew is awesome. I so wish they had done more of that crew.

I loved this episode. My only criticism of Living Witness is they employed way to many clichés to make a point about the crew being evil.

I guess the point was to illustrate how misconceptions can be filled with clichés however I would have liked a more realistic portrayal of the dark side of people that wasn't filled with black gloves and all the rest which seemed over the top.

 

[iguana_tonante]

^But the black gloves were brilliant!

 

[Bill Morris]

Great episode except the lack of an explanation of how a backup of the Doc was able to function without a matrix, which would not have been included in a backup.

 

[DarthTom]

LCARS 24 said:
Great episode except the lack of an explanation of how a backup of the Doc was able to function without a matrix, which would not have been included in a backup.

If you wanna go the route of "just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist..." typical BS answers that people give for the shows where explanations are shall we say, 'hard to find..'

Lets suppose that after the Dr. was combined with the Zimmerman halo matrix, Belana as a fail safe built a back up system especially since the Dr.'s very survival was threatened several times.

 

[DarthTom]

iguana_tonante said:
^But the black gloves were brilliant!

If you take it as a joke ... perhaps. As a way to make someone 'evil' it's 9th grader writing IMHO.

 

[Is It Over Yet?]

The black gloves were awesome.
Remember they were the alien's interpretation of Voyager. They believed the Voyager crew were evil bastards, so they had to make them appear that way as much as possible.

 

[DarthTom]

Akiraprise said:
The black gloves were awesome.
Remember they were the alien's interpretation of Voyager. They believed the Voyager crew were evil bastards, so they had to make them appear that way as much as possible.

One of my longstanding complaints about ST in general. Why would an alien culture use human metahpor [apply it] and then come to false conclusions?

 

[Is It Over Yet?]

Well, an actual alien culture would not. But we, the human audience, need to understand what is going on right away. If the aliens had put bright yellow, cone shaped, hats on the Voyager crew's heads to indicate they're evil anyone watching on TV would be like WTF and probably flip the channel. The writer's would then have to add dialogue explaining what the bright yellow cone shaped hats meant, eating up screen time. So it's easier to just go with the cliche black gloves.

 

[DarthTom]

Akiraprise said:
Well, an actual alien culture would not. But we, the human audience, need to understand what is going on right away. If the aliens had put bright yellow, cone shaped, hats on the Voyager crew's heads to indicate they're evil anyone watching on TV would be like WTF and probably flip the channel. The writer's would then have to add dialogue explaining what the bright yellow cone shaped hats meant, eating up screen time. So it's easier to just go with the cliche black gloves.

They pulled it off in Serenity the film.

 

[exodus]

DarthTom said:

Akiraprise said:
Well, an actual alien culture would not. But we, the human audience, need to understand what is going on right away. If the aliens had put bright yellow, cone shaped, hats on the Voyager crew's heads to indicate they're evil anyone watching on TV would be like WTF and probably flip the channel. The writer's would then have to add dialogue explaining what the bright yellow cone shaped hats meant, eating up screen time. So it's easier to just go with the cliche black gloves.

They pulled it off in Serenity the film.

Yep, and only the 4 people that saw that film know that fact.

 

[Is It Over Yet?]

Did somebody have bright yellow hats in that movie? I watched it but don't remember too much of it.
If so I concede defeat DarthTom.

 

[DarthTom]

Akiraprise said:
Did somebody have bright yellow hats in that movie? I watched it but don't remember too much of it.
If so I concede defeat DarthTom.

You know what I'm talking about. In the film Serenity they integrated several new ways humans might in the future interact with each other to include but not limited too:

*Culture
*Language
*A mix of Asian and American metaphors

etc.

In the Living Witness they don't even try to do it with an alien culture - in fact Trek never tries to do it period, they use 'human clichés' to make points.

It's a minor criticism again because in general I do like the Episode very much and it's better than most of Trek in general and on my top 10 list of Voyager period.

 

[Anwar]

In Firefly/Serenity that's a part of the entire show, with the new culture/languages being used all the time. With Trek there's no point in putting all that effort into aliens of the week we'll never see again so why bother?

 

[Blueicus]

And we do see it in terms of the long-established species (Klingon, Vulcan, etc.) It would be sort of "a waste of time" to have an alien of the week be fleshed out so completely only to have the episode end just after that.