I'm re-reading "The Lives of Dax" and I'm curious about the Trill-Vulcan First Contact.
Is there anything else written on the subject?
Is there anything else written on the subject?
Lives of Dax - Trill-Vulcan 1st Contact
- Thread starter Judith Sisko
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Nope, I don't think so. In the grand scheme of things, that's pretty insignificant.
Except, if memory serves, it does seem to suggest T'Pau was a veteran diplomat around at the time of Vulcan-Human first contact, which doesn't jibe with her later depiction in ENT, and would have made her really old in "Amok Time".
She could have been a diplomat before joining the Syrrannites and she looked about 250 in Amok Time, older still in TSFS. It can be fixed, maybe.
True, I'd forgotten about T'Pau's involvement in this story. And she wasn't in TSFS, that was T'Lar, I believe.
That is interesting, and it's supported in at least a few places in recent trek fiction and "non-fiction". In Star Charts, Trill is a stop in the 22nd Century early UFP Trade Routes, and in the first Destiny book Dax was reflecting back to hir memories of being present at the launching of Columbia NX-02. The Tobin story in TLOD also takes place mid(?)-Romulan War which isn't too far off either, but you were probably already referring to that bit.
It is pretty obvious the intent was to have it be the same T'Pau and ENT put a crimp in things. But if one wanted to do a creative bit of retcon the argument could be made that it was a separate person. Perhaps it's even a family name. Like how Tuvok's mother is named T'Meni as is his granddaughter. Or Worf and his Grandad Worf, or Ian Andrew Troi, Deanna's Dad and Ian Andrew her son. I'd buy it.
^^The T'Pau in TLOD: "First Steps" has to be a different T'Pau from the one in ENT and "Amok Time." ENT: "The Forge" explicitly establishes that T'Pau was only 32 standard years old in 2154, meaning that "First Steps" takes place 47 years before she was born.
And they don't even have to be related, any more than I'm related to Christopher Walken or Christopher Reeve. Heck, there have been three different characters named T'Pel in canonical Trek and a fourth in the novels; that seems to be a very common Vulcan female name. So having more than one T'Pau isn't shocking.
And they don't even have to be related, any more than I'm related to Christopher Walken or Christopher Reeve. Heck, there have been three different characters named T'Pel in canonical Trek and a fourth in the novels; that seems to be a very common Vulcan female name. So having more than one T'Pau isn't shocking.
Really? I know of Tuvok's wife, and the supposedly deadly Vulcan Assassin urban legend, but who are the other two?
T'Pel was the name of an ancestor mentioned by Spock in "Yesteryear" when he was pretending to be cousin Selek. And we saw an Ambassador T'Pel in "Data's Day," although she turned out to be a Romulan spy named Selok.
So long as there is filmed Trek (TV or movies), it will always trump the fiction, even after the fact, no matter what was intended originally.
So while it clearly was meant to be 'the' T'Pau (though I don't recall now if that was my idea or Marco's or Kristine's - I'd just wanted to do the first contact story and don't remember who suggested that T'Pau be the diplomat), if Enterprise contradicts the short story, then Enterprise supersedes it.
*shrug*
js
So while it clearly was meant to be 'the' T'Pau (though I don't recall now if that was my idea or Marco's or Kristine's - I'd just wanted to do the first contact story and don't remember who suggested that T'Pau be the diplomat), if Enterprise contradicts the short story, then Enterprise supersedes it.
*shrug*
js
No, dammit! They HAVE to be related, I will be thoroughly shocked, Shocked I say, if they aren't! There's no room in Trek for Diversity. I'm writing my congressman, this simply won't stand.
Why is it inelegant? I don't recall anything from "First Steps" that explicitly links that story's T'Pau to the T'Pau we know. And I for one think we should see more cases of the same name being used repeatedly within a given species, because that's simply realistic.
I suppose what I'm calling "inelegant" reflects the fact that a name like T'Pau has had significance in Trek in the past, and it'd be like suddenly having a story about a different Captain Pike or a different Klingon named Worf (ohwait).
Saying that there are multiple Vulcans named T'Pau makes sense, sure, but it's also clear that the author of that chapter (I forget who it was) was trying to show us a younger T'Pau from "Amok Time." Perhaps I read too much into this passage from the story:
I get hints of Celia Lovsky's portrayal in that passage, as well as a slightly improved version of the xenophobic undercurrent in the character in "Amok Time" (which could easily just be about the ceremony and how unusual it was for offworlders to attend them).
I suppose I see this as a moment in which playing "the let's reconcile this with canon game" seems a bit silly... T'Pau's appearance in the novel was later contradicted by canon, like so many other things in Trek. Since Rusch presumably had no clue they'd be showing T'Pau in Enterprise a few years later, it seems clear to me that this is what the author's intent was.
Saying that there are multiple Vulcans named T'Pau makes sense, sure, but it's also clear that the author of that chapter (I forget who it was) was trying to show us a younger T'Pau from "Amok Time." Perhaps I read too much into this passage from the story:
I get hints of Celia Lovsky's portrayal in that passage, as well as a slightly improved version of the xenophobic undercurrent in the character in "Amok Time" (which could easily just be about the ceremony and how unusual it was for offworlders to attend them).
I suppose I see this as a moment in which playing "the let's reconcile this with canon game" seems a bit silly... T'Pau's appearance in the novel was later contradicted by canon, like so many other things in Trek. Since Rusch presumably had no clue they'd be showing T'Pau in Enterprise a few years later, it seems clear to me that this is what the author's intent was.
^^Well, yes, the intent of the author goes without saying. The point is, out of all the novels and stories whose assumptions have been contradicted by later canon, this is one of the easiest ones to reconcile, because reconciling it only requires making one very basic and sensible assumption: namely, that more than one person can have the same name.
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