Lionel Luthor (Smallville S7 spoilers)

[Kryton]

Actually, SOME of the spoilerness goes back farther. I just saw the scene where Lionel ... well, he combines Veritas with a certain ... gravitas.

Anyway, even though I missed a couple seasons I'm currently catching up on, am I correct to read it that Lionel's "change" came about after his "posession" by Jor-El?

If I'm interpreting that correctly, both Lionel's and Jor-El's consciousnesses were tapped into the whole "Traveler" concept. Lionel is SUCH a grey character in some ways but so very, very BLACK a character in others. He's rarely shown in a white light...but here's the basic question (and I'm sure it was discussed a year ago when it first aired):

How much LIGHT was there in Lionel at the end? He killed people, he made extreme moves to attain Swann's information, yet when Glover played him against Clark, he managed to SEEM sincere. And at the same time, I guess I'd come to the same conclusion Clark did when Lionel said "I'm no longer THAT man" and CK said "You're wrong".

But despite his motivations, some of which were extremely sick and disgusting, had he managed to sort of redeem himself? Clearly Lex was spiraling DOWN the drain during this story arc, but Lionel had so many different shades to him...I have to say (because I've been a fan of John Glover's since 1985...a New Twilight Zone episode called "A Small Talent for War"), I really WANTED to think he'd turned more to the light as a contrast to his offspring's downfall.

Ultimately, though, and realistically (as realistically as one can consider a TV show based on a comic book), he was probably long beyond redemption well before CK arrived on Earth.

A shame...I like stories of redemption (anyone remember Callisto on Xena finding it?), but there are limits I suppose.

 

[the Dagman]

The "change" in Lionel from the more overtly evil persona came about in the fourth season when he and Clark switched bodies for an episode. The presence of Clark's psyche in Lionel's body left a kind of cleansing effect behind. So that when Lionel was restored to his true body he not only was cured of the terminal liver disease he had in S3, but became very altruistic for a period of time. Although the greater effects of that did seem to fade over time, leading many fans wondering if it was a true change or just another ruse.

It also seemed that the body switch back also erased his knowledge of Clark's powers he gained while in his body. The writers seemed to retcon that later when they "revealed" that Lionel was a member of Swann's Veritas group. That "revelation" basically did away with the idea of Lionel being in Smallville when Clark arrived on Earth as being a coincidence, because he knew Kal-El was coming. He was there to find him first and foremost. It was likely the whole reason the Luthor's were anywhere near Smallville in the first place. So, not only did Lana's parents die as a result of the fragments of Krypton being pulled through space via his ship's hyperspacial vortex and crashing on Earth as meteors, and Lex losing his hair, but Pete's family lost their farm because of his coming to Earth as well.

 

[Gaith]

^^^ Laaame.

Here's my question, as I decided to ditch the show after S3: when was it that the Jor-El presence became a "good" guy, and stopped insisting that Clark conquer the world? Was that whole little detail forgotten about post-S2?

 

[CorporalClegg]

^
That was more along the lines of Milfred trying to use clever semantic word play as a red herring. The problem is it wasn't very clever and based off of very loose interpretation of the words thus didn't come across very well.

 

[Kryton]

I think in S7 they tried to tell us that ZOR-El was the hugely militaristic asshole and JOR-El, not as much.

Some of the episodes I've been seeing have been really fascinating while some in this (the 7th) season have been more "meh".

I only decided to pick it up after the show became reinvigorated with the Daily Planet and Metropolis and Doomsday involvement in the current season so I wanted to catch up on some of the stuff I'd missed ... and Lionel's demise (as well as Lex's Alexander side's demise) has been both fascinating and enlightening as far as helping me catch up.

 

[Broccoli]

^^^ Laaame.

Here's my question, as I decided to ditch the show after S3: when was it that the Jor-El presence became a "good" guy, and stopped insisting that Clark conquer the world? Was that whole little detail forgotten about post-S2?

I think the idea that he wanted Clark to "take over the world" as a way to ready it, because Jor-El (somehow) knew that Zod was coming in season 5.

 

[Gaith]

I think the idea that he wanted Clark to "take over the world" as a way to ready it, because Jor-El (somehow) knew that Zod was coming in season 5.

In other words, they were making it up (poorly) as they went along? That's what I figured. ;-)

 

[Guy Gardener]

I always figured that he was just trying to become a better man so that Martha would sleep with him?

Its just changed how he played the game, but he still had most of the same goals.

Jonathan Kent was an ass. Martha was delusional to see anything in him. That's the sort of delusion that can see goodness in a monster like Lionel.

Bring on the Fraking clones already!!!

Cause lets face it, if he was going to come back as a clone, why would he come back as a clone in his mid 60s if he had any say in the matter?