Latent Image brought tears to my eyes

[scottydog]

This surprised me. The only other trek episodes that made me cry were TOS's City on the Edge of Forever, TNG's Family, and DS9's The Visitor. What these episodes have in common is that they are all love stories and/or family stories.

But Latent Image isn't a love story. It's a story about holographic doctor who has to make an impossible no-win life & death decision, and then has to live with the consequences. Kudos to the writers of this episode for making this such an emotionally powerful story. When the doctor fell apart during his scene with Neelix in the mess hall, I just lost it.

 

[Jeri]

The one that makes me cry is also a Doctor episode: "Real Life," where Belle dies. The Doctor had many fine stories and added immeasurably to the show.

 

[exodus]

The one that makes me cry is also a Doctor episode: "Real Life," where Belle dies. The Doctor had many fine stories and added immeasurably to the show.

I was about to write the exact same thing.

 

[kimc]

This surprised me. The only other trek episodes that made me cry were TOS's City on the Edge of Forever, TNG's Family, and DS9's The Visitor. What these episodes have in common is that they are all love stories and/or family stories.

But Latent Image isn't a love story. It's a story about holographic doctor who has to make an impossible no-win life & death decision, and then has to live with the consequences. Kudos to the writers of this episode for making this such an emotionally powerful story. When the doctor fell apart during his scene with Neelix in the mess hall, I just lost it.

I also like this one a lot. It was a gut-wrenching decision that would bother anyone but the poor Doc was totally unprepared for the fallout. I loved how in the end everyone banded together to help him through it instead of just reprogramming him again.

 

[jamestyler]

I also like this one a lot. It was a gut-wrenching decision that would bother anyone but the poor Doc was totally unprepared for the fallout. I loved how in the end everyone banded together to help him through it instead of just reprogramming him again.

I loved that ending. I remember thinking of the similarities he had with Data, both being essentially programming emulating human behavior, but with Data there'd be no emotional conflict. I really liked the idea of him having an emotional breakdown over something so mechanical.

I thought the same of Real Life, Data tried a relationship and when problems arrived/Jenna left him, he could shrug it off. But when the Doctors family went wrong he had to face the emotional journey ahead of him.

 

[scottydog]

I agree that in a way, the EMH doctor's ability to express emotion makes him a better and more complex character than Data.

 

[JNG]

I think Picardo kind of got a little out of control in the final scene, but the rest of the cast nailed this in the way they dealt with him. Kate Mulgrew was particularly effective.

 

[Candlelight]

I feel sad that I can't even remember this one! Is latent image a season 3 episode? Cos I never saw that season.

 

[scottydog]

Season 5, actually. Please see it again if you can!

 

[Candlelight]

Oh right. Think I missed much of season 5 as well. Was at university at the time.

EDIT: Just looked on Memory Alpha, yes I remember seeing it - and hated it. The ending was way too abrupt, the mystery surrounding what happened 18 months ago was hardly a mystery and Seven's interjections about humanity and individuality were annoying. The Doctor had programming to help him make decisions about who to treat first, it made no sense as to why he suddenly couldn't do it anymore (unless it was mentioned why and I've forgotten). It was however a great Robert Picardo performance.

Sorry, but I thought this was another one - don't mean to put a dampner on your thread scotty!

 

[scottydog]

No problem! We can't all like the same episodes to the same degree

 

[JNG]

The Doctor had programming to help him make decisions about who to treat first, it made no sense as to why he suddenly couldn't do it anymore (unless it was mentioned why and I've forgotten).

I believe it was implied, if not stated, that the tremendous personal development he had undergone, and according modifications to his program to allow him to do stuff like have friends and sophisticated feelings, at some point began to interfere with his ability to mechanically make these decisions—and there is some level on which this is only plausible, so I thought it was a solid justification.

 

[2 of 10]

Laten Image is one of my favorite Voyager episodes, loved the scene when Seven goes to see Janeway at 02:00 and tries to make sense of the situation. When Kathrine tries to compair the Doc to the replicator, Seven come back about her being like the replicatior too, and will she abandon her also, that discussion got to Janeway, and I think got her to reconsider her decision to re-progam the Doctor. I also agee with Jeri and Exodus about Real Life, espically when Tom pursades the Doc to go back to his
Holo-family, this is probably the best advice that I saw Mr. Paris give on Voyager. This episode really got to me the first scene I was cracking up, the final brought a few tears to me eyes, great episode...

 

[Jeri]

Great point; if there is one thing of a personal nature that Paris was knowledgeable about before that, it's probably family problems. It's one of the reasons B'Elanna and he came together, IMO; and one of the things they had in common. They were both yearning for good family relations, having lost their own so painfully. Not to get too far OT, in relation to the Doctor's family in "Real Life..."

 

[Sci]

Oh right. Think I missed much of season 5 as well. Was at university at the time.

EDIT: Just looked on Memory Alpha, yes I remember seeing it - and hated it. The ending was way too abrupt, the mystery surrounding what happened 18 months ago was hardly a mystery and Seven's interjections about humanity and individuality were annoying. The Doctor had programming to help him make decisions about who to treat first, it made no sense as to why he suddenly couldn't do it anymore (unless it was mentioned why and I've forgotten). It was however a great Robert Picardo performance.

Sorry, but I thought this was another one - don't mean to put a dampner on your thread scotty!

The episode established that the Doctor's programmed to treat the patient most likely to survive but had no provisions for how to make a decision when presented with two patients equally likely to survive. Presumably, the designers intended that in a situation like that, the EMH would receive direction from a biological doctor, but of course Zimmerman's team never intended for the EMH to be the only doctor on a ship.

The conflict came from the fact that, in making the choice, the Doc arbitrarily chose a friend over someone he had no emotional relationship with. His mind was simply unprepared for the mental and emotional consequences of that decision -- the sensations of guilt, etc.

 

[scottydog]

^That's what made it such a great episode. Plus, Janeway's decision to allow the Doc to resolve the conflict rather than just simply erasing his files. I'm glad Seven convinced her to allow the Doc the dignity of struggling and resolving the conflict on his own -- he deserved that kind of respect.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The conflict came from the fact that, in making the choice, the Doc arbitrarily chose a friend over someone he had no emotional relationship with. His mind was simply unprepared for the mental and emotional consequences of that decision -- the sensations of guilt, etc.

I guess it was a no-win situation. If the Doctor had treated Ensign Jetal, and Harry had died, the Doctor might have felt equally guilty - that he let his friend die just to prove how detached he could be.

I loved this episode too, but I was troubled by how the Doctor seemed to be acting like he's the only one who ever had to make a decision like this. Does he think he can somehow make a better, more objective decision simply because he's a computer program? (This would seem to be belied by the simple fact that the Doctor *could* form friendships. So he's obviously not as objective as he claims to be.) I'm sure every ship's doctor in Starfleet history has had to face a situation like this. And it didn't drive them all nuts, did it?

The way I see it, *so what* if the Doctor's friendship with Harry influenced his decision? Granted, none of us wanted Jetal to die, but something - *anything* - had to help the Doctor make a decision. If he waited too long, both would die. I'm just guessing that both Kim and Jetal had equal value (in terms of their contributions as officers) to the crew. So what's left? The Doctor was stalling. He couldn't decide. So something had to help him along - in this case, his friendship with Harry. In the end, does it matter? Either one person dies, or two people die. Anything that helps it be the former, rather than the latter, I'd almost call it even.

 

[kimc]

I loved this episode too, but I was troubled by how the Doctor seemed to be acting like he's the only one who ever had to make a decision like this. Does he think he can somehow make a better, more objective decision simply because he's a computer program? (This would seem to be belied by the simple fact that the Doctor *could* form friendships. So he's obviously not as objective as he claims to be.) I'm sure every ship's doctor in Starfleet history has had to face a situation like this. And it didn't drive them all nuts, did it?

True but then other doctors theoretically have the emotional maturity that quite frankly can only come with time. The Doctor may have been evolving and forming emotions but the maturity to handle those new-found emotions was lacking - and so the breakdown.

 

[jamestyler]

I'd imagine other CMO's would have suffered the same issue, but with him the story had the potential to be far more interesting from an SF perspective.

Crusher and Bashir aren't great examples as they have staff to assist them, but being imperfect human every day(ish) people they would also automatically have the support from their fiends, captain, counsellers and have the life expeience to help them get over it.

With the Doctor he was five years old, not programmed to deal with such a situation, never programmed to be in charge and his being synthetic in nature gave Janeway the easy option of interfering in his programming instead of letting him resolve the issue - if he could seeing as it's way out of his programming.

I thought it was a better way of dealing with the idea of not treating him as an equal than it did in his holo-novel episode.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

True but then other doctors theoretically have the emotional maturity that quite frankly can only come with time. The Doctor may have been evolving and forming emotions but the maturity to handle those new-found emotions was lacking - and so the breakdown.

Good point. He's not used to being sentient. I suppose he really did react as a young child would, since that's pretty much what he was.

I just wish somebody would have actually brought this up in an episode. At the very least, I stand by my assertion that something, *anything*, had to help him make that decision. If it took his friendship with Harry to do it, so much the better.

Also, everyone reading this should ask themselves what they would do if they were a doctor and this happened to them. I freely admit I would choose the person I was closest to. This is an entirely normal reaction. No one should be ashamed to admit it.