Laptop question

[Unicron]

Possibly a dumb one...

I've had my laptop (Macbook Pro) for nearly a full year now, and I've noticed lately that the battery seems to have started holding less of a charge. I will admit I've gotten into the semi-bad habit of charging it while I'm using it (the Internet is so addictive ), and I'm not sure whether that's contributed or not.

But I'm just curious what I might do to remedy this, whether it's just naturally losing the charge after a period of time or it just might need replacing eventually. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Laptop batteries supposedly should not be charged "all the time", but allowed to run down, then be charged back up.

Charging all the time is supposed to shorten the overall lifespan and also the span between charges.

If you feel the need to keep it plugged in, you could remove the battery during those periods.

 

[Iasius]

Laptop batteries supposedly should not be charged "all the time", but allowed to run down, then be charged back up.

That depends on the type of battery. NiMH batteries have this memory effect, but Li-ion batteries do not.

However Li-ion batteries have another serious problem:

Disadvantages of traditional Li-ion technology
Shelf life

* A disadvantage of lithium-ion cells is their poor cycle life: upon every charge or recharge, deposits form inside the electrolyte that inhibit lithium ion transport. Over time, the capacity of the cell diminishes. The increase in internal resistance affects the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications. The increasing capacity hit means that a full charge in an older battery will not last as long as one in a new battery (although the charging time required decreases proportionally, as well).

* Also, high charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether resulting from charging or being ambient) hasten permanent capacity loss for lithium-ion batteries.[33][34] The heat generated during a charge cycle is caused by the traditional carbon anode, which has been replaced with lithium titanate. Lithium titanate has been experimentally shown to drastically reduce the degenerative effects associated with charging, including expansion and other factors.[35] See "Technology improvements" below.

* At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion laptop battery that is full most of the time at 25 °C or 77 °F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to prolonged exposure to higher temperatures, which will shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.

I use a program (specific to the laptop) that allows me to select the max charge level and I usually keep it at 50%.

 

[Mr. B]

Laptop batteries supposedly should not be charged "all the time", but allowed to run down, then be charged back up.

The opposite is true of Lithium Ion batteries which power most modern devices including laptops. There's nothing wrong with incremental charging and use of Li-Ion batteries, although complete dis/recharges are recommended about every 30 cycles.

Ideally, such batteries should be stored at a 40% charge when not in use for long periods.

Gradual degradation of Li-Ion chemistry is ultimately unavoidable, however. They start to decay as soon as they are manufactured. Generally they lose about half their capacity after 200 charge cycles and eventually require replacement.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

My laptop does have a Li-ion battery which doesn't seem to hold a charge for long periods, but I did get the machine used, so no telling how much it was used before I got it.

 

[Unicron]

I wish I could remember which type mine uses. My brain's tired at the moment. What I used to do more commonly when it was new was to let it go down maybe halfway or three quarters, and then recharge it overnight. But I seldom had the cord plugged in while it was running except to update software. I still do it that way, I'm just a little lazier.

Edit: I've noticed my counter seems to vary somewhat. It'll say that it only has say an hour/ hour and a half and then more. But if it's a Li-Ion battery issue, then it could be some of those deposits building.

 

[Unicron]

Yeah, definitely a Li-Ion issue I think. Does anyone know whether this sort of wear can cause inaccuracies on how the computer reads the battery? i.e. that it might say X amount of time/energy and there's really more or less than that?

 

[Deks]

Batteries lose charge over time.
It's a fact with which you have to deal with.
Some batteries will lose their charge slower, others faster ... depends really.

I personally never remove my battery from my Acer laptop.
It lost about 30 mins of charge ... but that battery is also a year and a half old now.

To my knowledge though, with newer OS-es (at least as far as Vista SP2 and Win 7 go), the battery can be inside your laptop on AC power, and it will not continue to be charged (provided it's already full).

Degradation will happen though ... either from non-use, or from use.

 

[Unicron]

Do you mean it's always plugged in, rather than never removing the battery?

 

[Bisz]

Yeah, definitely a Li-Ion issue I think. Does anyone know whether this sort of wear can cause inaccuracies on how the computer reads the battery? i.e. that it might say X amount of time/energy and there's really more or less than that?

Yes it can. Take a look at this:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1490

 

[Deks]

Do you mean it's always plugged in, rather than never removing the battery?

The laptop is mostly on AC power to begin with, and the battery is also always plugged in without it receiving any charge if it's full.

In some cases the loss of a charge was minimal ... but predominantly, all batteries exhibited standard deterioration over time ... plugged in or not.

 

[Unicron]

Hmmm... I might have to see about calibration then. Thanks for the link, Bisz. I had poked around the general battery page, but hadn't looked at the calibration page.

 

[Bisz]

No problem.

I'm waiting for my first MBP to arrive (its in Alaska right now) so I've been reading up on this stuff in preparation.

 

[Unicron]

I've noticed an odd noise with my laptop. I'm not sure if that's because of the battery issue, or something I never noticed before. But I have noticed the temperature's been up a bit lately. Or so it seems.

 

[Deks]

That is likely because of the dirt build-up.
You have to clean out the air vents and the area between the fan and the air vents.

It's recommended to clean the laptop like this (even desktops) once every 6 months up to a year ... once in 3 months most likely if you live in a really dusty area.

 

[Unicron]

What's the best way to do that on a laptop? It's probably in my book somewhere... Turns out the noise wasn't was I thought it was - it was coming in from outside, but was far enough away that it was difficult for me to localize.

 

[Deks]

You can buy a can of compressed air.
Press it to the air vents (while the laptop is off) and let it squeeze out the dust (although in some cases it can just as easily push some of the dust deeper into the casing).

Also ... you will have to open up the bottom panel of the laptop to get to the fan (if you decide you want to clean the insides manually).
When you are there, unscrew the fan from it's base and move it to the side.
Clean up the fan AND the area between the base of the fan and the air vent (where most of the dust has a tendency of accumulating).

There's no big deal about it (although do make sure to keep the machine turned off for disassembly and cleaning).

If you laptop has a problematic lower panel, you will have to consult with the disassembly guide for it to get to the fan (but as I said, it shouldn't be that much of a problem).

 

[Unicron]

Thanks. I'll look into that.

 

[Deks]

If you need any more help, let me know