Kos was a true gentleman

[Saganistheman]

Season 4 Episode 9 "Kir'Shara" I really feel bad for Kos. I think he did love T'Pol but realized that she did not love him. He placed himself and his family's name in danger by helping T'Pau and Archer get into the High Council chamber just because he knew it was important to T'Pol. He aslo did a noble selfless act by releasing her of their marriage. Props to Kos for being a true gentleman.

 

[T'Girl]

Apparently not ALL Vulcans are complete assholes.

 

[jespah]

I like him as a character; he definitely was able to rise above and do the right thing.

 

[gblews]

Season 4 Episode 9 "Kir'Shara" I really feel bad for Kos. I think he did love T'Pol but realized that she did not love him. He placed himself and his family's name in danger by helping T'Pau and Archer get into the High Council chamber just because he knew it was important to T'Pol. He aslo did a noble selfless act by releasing her of their marriage. Props to Kos for being a true gentleman.

...after blackmailing T'Pol into marrying him in the first place, knowing this wasn't what she wanted.

 

[Mister Spock]

Am I the only one who figured he didn't really want to marry her in the first place and was just doing it to keep up appearances? Perhaps he had a lover already, much like T'Pring in Amok Time.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It is entirely possible that Koss really did love T'Pol. Just because their original marriage was pre-arranged, and that T'Pol didn't return Koss' attentions, doesn't mean he couldn't have loved her anyway.

Koss clearly cared about T'Pol in some manner, because he let her off the proverbial hook (just like the OP described) in the easiest way possible.

 

[Saganistheman]

...after blackmailing T'Pol into marrying him in the first place, knowing this wasn't what she wanted.

Explain to me how he blackmailed her? It was an arranged marriage. If T'Pol had pulled her head out of her ass long enough, and actually told Kos, her mother, and Tripp the truth I doubt that he would have gone through with it in the first place. If Kos was really a big enough dick to blackmail her into marriage please explain why he dissolved the marriage? He even told her that he knew she married him our of duty to her mother, and he came up with that on his own because T'Pol sure as hell never told him.

 

[gblews]

...after blackmailing T'Pol into marrying him in the first place, knowing this wasn't what she wanted.

Explain to me how he blackmailed her?

He told T'Pol that his family could help her mother get reinstated in her position, but only if she married him.

It was an arranged marriage. If T'Pol had pulled her head out of her ass long enough, and actually told Kos, her mother, and Tripp the truth I doubt that he would have gone through with it in the first place.

T'Pol did tell her mother the truth. T'Les was well aware that she didn't want to marry Kos. She let Trip know too, when she told him that she was going through with the marriage in order to help her mother. Finally, she also let Kos know she didn't want to marry him -- why else would he have felt the need to blackmail her.

If Kos was really a big enough dick to blackmail her into marriage please explain why he dissolved the marriage? He even told her that he knew she married him our of duty to her mother, and he came up with that on his own because T'Pol sure as hell never told him.

You answered your own question. Kos let her out of the marriage because he finally accepted that she didn't love him. And, as I previously stated, T'Pol let Kos know she didn't want to marry him in their first conversation, the one in T'Les' backyard.

She even threatened to call the Ka Li Fe, to which Kos sarcastically replied that perhaps her "human friend" could fight for her. T'Pol agreed to marry him only after Kos suggested that his family could help her mother. Oh, and despite it being an "arranged marriage", T'Pol could still have gotten out of it, but that would have meant Kos' famiy wouldn't have helped T'Les.

Kos did redeem himself in the end, but make no mistake, he initially blackmaiied T'Pol into marrying him.

 

[Saganistheman]

^ I do not agree with you. You cannot blackmail someone into doing something that they were already arranged to do. The only thing Kos did was offer T'Pol more incentive to get married at that moment in time because she had brought shame to her family.

I think he truly loved her unconditionally, because why should he marry someone who could possibly bring shame on his family as well.

And if I am not mistaken it was mentioned that most Vulcan's do not marry out of love in the first place, so T'Pol got married the way most Vulcan's do; out of obligation to her family's wishes. If anything Kos was just reminding her of her duties and arranged obligations. Just because he prompted her on the benefits no way implies blackmail.

 

[gblews]

^ I do not agree with you. You cannot blackmail someone into doing something that they were already arranged to do. The only thing Kos did was offer T'Pol more incentive to get married at that moment in time because she had brought shame to her family.

As I have already pointed out, the marriage was prearranged but did not have to occur. In Breaking the Ice, T'Pol essentially kicked Kos to the curb by refusing to marry him. If T'Pol had not returned to Vulcan, Kos would never have been able to continue his pursuit of marriage and the arrangement would have become moot.

If anything Kos was just reminding her of her duties and arranged obligations. Just because he prompted her on the benefits no way implies blackmail.

T'Les lost her position because of T'Pol's actions at P'Jem, so T'Pol felt responsible. After Kos told T'Pol that his family could help T'Les regain her position (but only if T'Pol married him), T'Pol relented and married Kos. She would have continued to refuse to marry Kos but for her desire to help her mother and the gallant Kos tying his offer to help T'Les to the marriage.

It was blackmail because Kos forced T'Pol to either marry him or her mother would never be reinstated to her position. He used T'Pol's desire to help her mother against her. Yes, real noble.

If Kos had really been the guy you seem to think he was, he would have offered to help T'Les regardless of T'Pol's refusal to marry him. Now THAT would have been unconditional love. And ironically, that might have caused T'Pol to view him in a different way and she may still have ended up agreeing to marry him.

And just like you, I'm sure Kos felt justified in his actions because of the "arrangement", but looking at his actions objectively makes him look like what he was, a jerk.

 

[Saganistheman]

^ It was not blackmail. Definition: (Webster's College Version) -a payment extorted by intimidation, as by threats of prosecution; or injurious revelations.

Kos did not extort, intimidate, threaten, prosecute, or injure T'Pol. She did all of those things to herself and her family when she betrayed the High Council at P'Jem (the High Councils honor is irrelevant) What is relevant is that her actions had dire consequences to her family and also to Kos and his family since they were linked by betrothal. Kos was just offering a solution that would be mutually beneficial. You got to take love out of the equation because it really has no relevance in an arranged marriage. Sure its nice to have, but not necessary because arranged marriage is not for the individual but for family, and T'Pol's was messed up at the time of his proposal.

It would have been much easier for him to just walk away and find someone else without so much baggage, but instead he offered her a way to fix things if she would only live up to their pre-arranged marriage...nothing forceful there. In fact he did more than anyone else by giving her options that in all honesty he didn't have to do. If anyone is the Jerk here it is T'Pol for being such an emotional trainwreck with skeletons in her closet that she did not tell anyone about.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I liked how Kos was played. He was a very sympathetic character. He comes across as a dreamer, to me. He lucked out in having the hottest Vulcan that ever lived be his betrothed wife to be. I mean ... just imagine that. A chick who looks as good as Jolene Blalock is marrying you ... you! And when she started pushing him away, telling him everything shy of "there's someone else," he kept holding onto the fantasy that a year of the married life with her would change her mind. But ... he's not Trip. And he has an aweful wig AND his makeup looks like an intern did it. So, he's not getting T'Pol - we, the audience, know that for certain. But we don't mind that he keeps trying, like a love-sick fool ...

 

[gblews]

^ It was not blackmail. Definition: (Webster's College Version) -a payment extorted by intimidation, as by threats of prosecution; or injurious revelations.

Kos did not extort, intimidate, threaten, prosecute, or injure T'Pol. ad he told T'Pol that

Actually, now that you mention it, "extortion" is probably a better word for what Kos did to T'Pol. And the "threat" was that T'Pol's mom would remain without her job if T'Pol didn't marry Kos. The "payment" was T'Pol's agreement to marry Kos.

It was simple; marry me and I'll help your mother, don't marry me and I won't help her. The fact is that Kos made one a condition for the other. Because of these conditions, T'Pol felt she had no choice (since she wanted to help her mother out of a problem T'Pol had caused), but to marry Kos.

Had he offered to help T'Les whether T'Pol married him or not, I'd have a different feeling about him but that is not what happened.

 

[2takesfrakes]

All's Fair in Love & War. Kos knows the logic of it ...

 

[Saganistheman]

Had he offered to help T'Les whether T'Pol married him or not....

Ok ok I give...instead of saying Kos was a perfect gentleman I will agree to say he was a not-so-perfect gentleman

 

[gblews]

Had he offered to help T'Les whether T'Pol married him or not....

Ok ok I give...instead of saying Kos was a perfect gentleman I will agree to say he was a not-so-perfect gentleman

And I will concede that Kos did end up doing the right thing by T'Pol (letting her out of the forced marriage), and thereby salvaging the character.

After what we saw in Kir' Shara, it is not inconceivable that because Vulcans live so long, that she might have ended up with Kos after Trip died (be it by the TaTV version for some, or by natural causes as a future book might have it).

 

[bluedana]

Couldn't we read Kos' offer to help T'Les be reinstated if T'Pol marries him as an offer to afford his good family name to repair T'Les'? That is, he could exert influence to get his mother-in-law reinstated to her position in a way that he could not for someone who was not family? I just don't think his motives were all bad. Selfish, a little, but not to the point of extortion.

 

[2takesfrakes]

This is kind of an example of how Vulcans aren't shown to be anywhere nearly "alien" enough. There is definitely a shorthand going on here, where the audience is just expected to know The Vulcan Way, instead of spelling it out for us. Especially in episodes like these, where we're meant to buy into this being an alien world. That's the one thing ENTERPRISE failed at, when it came to Vulcan. TOS went to great lengths to make Vulcan weird and alien. In ENT, they are just Americans, with bad wigs and prosthetics.

So, an audience can't be blamed for not connecting with Kos' motivations when all of Vulcan is just the backdrop to T'Pol's only too Human drama play. Kos was being properly and rigidly Vulcan, unaccustomed to T'Pol's Human taint, and how to respond to it. She was a loose cannon on deck and Kos was, in a curious way, trying to do damage control for both of them. Mostly himself, I'll grant you. But for her, too. T'Pol's his responsibility, in his view ... and honor must be protected and projected.

 

[Saganistheman]

^ I also have to wonder where the superior Vulcan strength went to in ENT. There are plenty of examples thorough the whole series where Vulcan's appear to have the same strength as humans.

 

[gblews]

Couldn't we read Kos' offer to help T'Les be reinstated if T'Pol marries him as an offer to afford his good family name to repair T'Les'? That is, he could exert influence to get his mother-in-law reinstated to her position in a way that he could not for someone who was not family? I just don't think his motives were all bad. Selfish, a little, but not to the point of extortion.

This is quite plausible, but for me to accept it, I would have needed to hear Kos say it -- "as a member of my family, it would be easier to have T'Les reinstated", or something like that. I'm not too big on 'subtext".

But all we got was him being a bit threatening and kind of ominous which I think was intentional. Mike Sussman probably wanted him to seem kind of distastful in the begining only to make him somewhat sympathetic in the end when Kos helped out Archer and (drawing a blank on little iconic Vulcan lady's name). As we've been told, the ending to Kir'Shara was supposed to be different from what we actually saw.

This is kind of an example of how Vulcans aren't shown to be anywhere nearly "alien" enough. There is definitely a shorthand going on here, where the audience is just expected to know The Vulcan Way, instead of spelling it out for us. Especially in episodes like these, where we're meant to buy into this being an alien world. That's the one thing ENTERPRISE failed at, when it came to Vulcan. TOS went to great lengths to make Vulcan weird and alien. In ENT, they are just Americans, with bad wigs and prosthetics.

I think you may be confusing fan interpretation of Vulcan actions as opposed to an in story judgement of Vulcan actions. Nowhere is it stated in the episode that Kos is wrong or acting out of character for a Vulcan. Even T'Les doesn't act like what Kos is doing is un-Vulcan-like. I think Kos was wrong, but that is my (human) fan reaction, not the Vulcans' in the stories' reaction to Kos. Kos may very well have been being very Vulcan and nowhere in the episode do we see his actions condenmned by other Vulcans.

Whenever TOS Vulcans are brought up, all I can see is that big toothy grin (yeah, real weird and alien), Spock breaks into in Amok Time when he finds out Kirk is not dead. Rodenberry played fast and loose with his Vulcans too when the story called for it.

And I'll bet if I sat here long enough I could think of several things the TNG aliens of choice (Klingons) did that were a bit too human or out of character for Klingons. We saw what Voy did wiht the Borg (which I liked very much), and what DS9 did with it's Vulcans -- that baseball episode. Ent to me, is right in step.