Koenig figured it out..LONG AGO

[RobertScorpio]

Anyone who remembers anything about the 70s will know that it was Koenig, more than Jimmy, or George at the time, who was Shatner's most vocal critic. Although I was at the convention and saw the other three griping, I later would read, and hear about, what Koenig said about shatner...

BUT.......................... that all changed. I met Koenig at a comic-con convention, here in san diego, a decade or so ago. And I asked him why he had 'quieted down'. He said, and this is Koenig I am talking about, that during the filming of Generations he and Bill came to terms with what he felt were the major problems. Then a friend of mine pointed out to me that Koenig had said as much around the filming of Generations. Koenig also wrote that after TMP's lack-luster acceptance by the fans, both Shatner, and Nimoy, pretty much ran a tight ship during KHAN, and that both of them muscled in on meyer, and the other actors, most of the shoot...

Koenig has been silent for many years, and I think he did bury the hatchet with Shatner on Generations. But I think Koenig is also VERY AWARE of the, at best, luke warm reception he got when he joined the cast of TOS. He has said on more than one occasion that George, Jimmy and Nichelle treated him as an outsider because they saw him, Koenig, as a replacement of Sulu because of Takei's film schedule conflicts...

If George Takie can be an asshole 40 years ago, and change..why can't shatner?

Rob

 

[bintak]

Anyone who remembers anything about the 70s will know that it was Koenig, more than Jimmy, or George at the time, who was Shatner's most vocal critic. Although I was at the convention and saw the other three griping, I later would read, and hear about, what Koenig said about shatner...

BUT.......................... that all changed. I met Koenig at a comic-con convention, here in san diego, a decade or so ago. And I asked him why he had 'quieted down'. He said, and this is Koenig I am talking about, that during the filming of Generations he and Bill came to terms with what he felt were the major problems. Then a friend of mine pointed out to me that Koenig had said as much around the filming of Generations. Koenig also wrote that after TMP's lack-luster acceptance by the fans, both Shatner, and Nimoy, pretty much ran a tight ship during KHAN, and that both of them muscled in on meyer, and the other actors, most of the shoot...

Koenig has been silent for many years, and I think he did bury the hatchet with Shatner on Generations. But I think Koenig is also VERY AWARE of the, at best, luke warm reception he got when he joined the cast of TOS. He has said on more than one occasion that George, Jimmy and Nichelle treated him as an outsider because they saw him, Koenig, as a replacement of Sulu because of Takei's film schedule conflicts...

If George Takie can be an asshole 40 years ago, and change..why can't shatner?

Rob

Some adapt, some don't. Koenig is Chekov, but he is also one of the best villains in science fiction, Alfred Bester. He adapted and was hired.^1

I wish Shatner had mellowed out a bit. Apparently he didn't see the need.

--------------------------------------------------

^1 Have you ever noticed how few Star Trek actors and how many Lost in Space actors landed in that show?

 

[RobertScorpio]

Anyone who


Rob

Some adapt, some don't. Koenig is Chekov, but he is also one of the best villains in science fiction, Alfred Bester. He adapted and was hired.^1

I wish Shatner had mellowed out a bit. Apparently he didn't see the need.

--------------------------------------------------

^1 Have you ever noticed how few Star Trek actors and how many Lost in Space actors landed in that show?

The defense shatner will make, and did, is the same defense Jack Lord made and the same defense other stars of modern tv shows will make; if the show falls, the star of the show (Shatner in this case) will be tagged with it. If that show had failed after the 15 episodes the headlines would read "STAR TREK, STARRING WILLIAM SHATNER" cancelled..same thing with Hawaii Five 0, and same thing with CSI (I hear the star of the first CSI, who just left, was hard to get along with too)....

So any script change Shatner made, and Nimoy I might add, were done for Shatner's own self serving reason; his career. And that happens on every single TV show where you have stars (Shatner/Nimoy) and so called 'second teir' actors....Takie and the others keep pointing at Shatner stealing their lines, or how he would demand that he, Shatner, be more in front of the camera in group shots..well...JESUS CHRIST..thats the way the biz is...

Maybe George's lack of a real career, until Heros, comes from his inability to understand the term "STAR" (shatner) and co-star (GEORGE). Maybe Takei never got another job because producers remember these things...and then you get a repuation...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[bintak]

Anyone who


Rob

Some adapt, some don't. Koenig is Chekov, but he is also one of the best villains in science fiction, Alfred Bester. He adapted and was hired.^1

I wish Shatner had mellowed out a bit. Apparently he didn't see the need.

--------------------------------------------------

^1 Have you ever noticed how few Star Trek actors and how many Lost in Space actors landed in that show?

The defense shatner will make, and did, is the same defense Jack Lord made and the same defense other stars of modern tv shows will make; if the show falls, the star of the show (Shatner in this case) will be tagged with it. If that show had failed after the 15 episodes the headlines would read "STAR TREK, STARRING WILLIAM SHATNER" cancelled..same thing with Hawaii Five 0, and same thing with CSI (I hear the star of the first CSI, who just left, was hard to get along with too)....

So any script change Shatner made, and Nimoy I might add, were done for Shatner's own self serving reason; his career. And that happens on every single TV show where you have stars (Shatner/Nimoy) and so called 'second teir' actors....Takie and the others keep pointing at Shatner stealing their lines, or how he would demand that he, Shatner, be more in front of the camera in group shots..well...JESUS CHRIST..thats the way the biz is...

Maybe George's lack of a real career, until Heros, comes from his inability to understand the term "STAR" (shatner) and co-star (GEORGE). Maybe Takei never got another job because producers remember these things...and then you get a repuation...

Rob
Scorpio

Shrug. Shatner pulled the numbers and has been successful in what; three series and more than twenty films, as well as more stage plays than I can remember?

Takei coat-tailed or to use the proper auto-racing metaphor, drafted in Shatner's wake. I would just shut up, and soldier. The guy out front drawing all the fire, is the one who helps me pay my bills. No Kirk, no Sulu, no residuals.

From this thread:#4 in sequence:

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=71281

 

[Outpost4]

Koenig is the one intellectual in the original cast. Nimoy is maybe as smart but he is also more a more instinctive artist. Koenig is just plain intelligent. He figured out what was wrong with his relationship with Shatner and cleaned it up. Sometimes brain power helps.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I was told a story about a panel discussion on of the Trek Cruises that consisted of Majel leading a Shatner bashing discussion with a few of the other TOS actors that were present, including Walter Koenig (who was still recovering from his heart attack, and therefore wasn't all that energetic on this outing).

At one point, probably because Majel had to pause for a breath, she asked Walter for his opinion.

Paraphrasing, he said, "Look, whether he did us wrong back then or not is irrelevant, because we didn't stand up to him back then, so it's kind of stupid to complain about it thirty years later."

For one of the few instances in history, Majel was speechless, while the audience applauded enthusiastically.

It should also be noted that Koenig was never under contract. He was a day player, as was, I suspect, Takei, Nichols, and maybe even Doohan. When a script that included their characters came up, they got a call to see if they were available. If they weren't, then suddenly it was Lt. Hansen at the helm, or Lt. Palmer at communications, or Scotty was referred to by somebody, but never actually appeared on screen. Koenig was the only one who kept this in perspective, even during the early days of the conventions, when anybody who showed up on the bill had their little contingent of fans hailing them as the "real stars" of Star Trek.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I was told a story about a panel discussion on of the Trek Cruises that consisted of Majel leading a Shatner bashing discussion with a few of the other TOS actors that were present, including Walter Koenig (who was still recovering from his heart attack, and therefore wasn't all that energetic on this outing).

At one point, probably because Majel had to pause for a breath, she asked Walter for his opinion.

Paraphrasing, he said, "Look, whether he did us wrong back then or not is irrelevant, because we didn't stand up to him back then, so it's kind of stupid to complain about it thirty years later."

For one of the few instances in history, Majel was speechless, while the audience applauded enthusiastically.

Wow, I hadn't heard that story...Walter Koenig is a pretty classy guy. And Bester was one of my favorite reasons to watch BAB-5..he nailed that role...can't say much for anything the others did because none of them did anything..memorable..

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Solariabsg25]

I'd heard the story that while filming TUC, there was supposed to be close-up of Chekov saying "Incoming!" during the battle with Chang's Bird-of-Prey.

Shatner suggested the closeup should be on him while Koenig said the line. Koenig said really the close-up should be on Chekov as he says it. And Shatner simply said "Yeah, sure, you're right." And the Chekov close-up was filmed and on-screen.

I also remember Koenig saying something along the lines of "If I'd have know it was that easy to get the guy to do that, then years ago...."

Seem to also remember Shatner being shocked then he discovered the true dislike some of the other cast had for him while researching a book, guess one of those things where the others gripe about it but it just doesn't get to your ears.

 

[RobertScorpio]

they wont even talk to the guy, 40 years later..and if they do its about things that happened 40 years ago...They may really think the guy was a jerk, for good reason...then why not just go on and let it go??? because they made money at conventions talking bad about the guy..it was their only way to earn a living..

Rob

 

[Sector 7]

The Shat-lovers always amaze me... they'd let the guy get away with murder. It always comes down to, "The others are losers or they would worship him, too!" every time.
Frankly it makes me sick.

 

[Dar70]

The Shat-lovers always amaze me... they'd let the guy get away with murder. It always comes down to, "The others are losers or they would worship him, too!" every time.
Frankly it makes me sick.

Not at all. The plain truth was Shtaner was the lead.The others were costars. To this day they still complain about him. They havent learned to let it go. Shatner on more than one occasion has apologized.

 

[Captain Robert April]

One of the big reasons why he never "hung out" with the others is that he was too busy arguing with the writers and producers to make the show better (not just the scripts, but the constantly shrinking uniforms and other issues).

Another is that, more often than not, they were only there a couple of days, assuming they were even in that week's episode. Of the 79 regular episodes and two pilots, Nichelle Nichols was in 68, Jimmy Doohan was in 65, Eddie Paskey and Billy Blackburn were in 59, George Takei was in 51, and Majel Barrett was in 33.

Interesting how the two biggest complainers about Shatner had the least screen time with him...

(A certain allowance has to be made for Walter Koenig in this respect, since he wasn't even there for the first season, but even with 36 episodes, he was there more than Majel.)

 

[Turbo]

On that last point, Majel was Gene's wife, and was therefore probably around the set a lot more than her 33 episodes would indiciate.

 

[JoeZhang]

The best thing about those threads is how so many people who were never there, don't know those people, have never worked with any of those people know who's right and what the "truth" is.

 

[Maurice]

On that last point, Majel was Gene's wife, and was therefore probably around the set a lot more than her 33 episodes would indiciate.

She wasn't his wife during the series. She was his mistress.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

On that last point, Majel was Gene's wife, and was therefore probably around the set a lot more than her 33 episodes would indiciate.

She wasn't his wife during the series. She was his mistress.

Didn't the book Inside Trek state that Roddenberry provided her with an apartment that was 'round the corner of the studio?

 

[Green Shirt]

If George Takie can be an asshole 40 years ago, and change..why can't shatner?

Rob

George changed?

When?

 

[EEE]

It should also be noted that Koenig was never under contract. He was a day player, as was, I suspect, Takei, Nichols, and maybe even Doohan.

I'm not sure about Koenig, but the others were contracted for something along the lines of 11-13* episodes a season. But, they most definitely were not day players.

* Note: I don't remember the exact number, but I do remember that it surprisingly low.

Not at all. The plain truth was Shtaner was the lead.The others were costars.

Shatner's (then) view made sense to me when he explained in "Mind Meld" that the others were supporting cast. And that he, Nimoy & Kelley were there most every day throughout the series. While the others would show up for a day or two occasionally (perhaps the source of the impression they were "day players?"). Given the age of TV at the time and it's inherent definition of "stars" versus "supporting cast," working everyday while others are only there short periods occasionally, etc. I can give Shatner some leeway for his views back then (He has said he was sorry more than once).

But more importantly, I still enjoy the end results to this day... so I have to default to "good on him."

 

[RobertScorpio]

The Shat-lovers always amaze me... they'd let the guy get away with murder. It always comes down to, "The others are losers or they would worship him, too!" every time.
Frankly it makes me sick.

yeah, well...the truth has the affect on some..

Rob

 

[EnsignHarper]

It should also be noted that Koenig was never under contract. He was a day player, as was, I suspect, Takei, Nichols, and maybe even Doohan.

I'm not sure about Koenig, but the others were contracted for something along the lines of 11-13* episodes a season. But, they most definitely were not day players.

* Note: I don't remember the exact number, but I do remember that it surprisingly low.

Not at all. The plain truth was Shtaner was the lead.The others were costars.

Shatner's (then) view made sense to me when he explained in "Mind Meld" that the others were supporting cast. And that he, Nimoy & Kelley were there most every day throughout the series. While the others would show up for a day or two occasionally (perhaps the source of the impression they were "day players?"). Given the age of TV at the time and it's inherent definition of "stars" versus "supporting cast," working everyday while others are only there short periods occasionally, etc. I can give Shatner some leeway for his views back then (He has said he was sorry more than once).

But more importantly, I still enjoy the end results to this day... so I have to default to "good on him."

If you want to get picky about Doohan, he even says he only got a 12 ep deal the first year - and Scotty is only in about half the 1st season eps...but...he is in all but a handful of 2nd season shows, and in just about ALL the 3rd season shows - name one he is NOT in. One of the few redeeming things about Season 3, is the idea that Scotty got quite a few decent things to do, and came pretty close to McCoy in importance.