Kobayashi Maru

[Brainsucker]

Ok, based on the new Discovery canon, the Fed hasn't been in contact with Klingon for at least 100 years. When they're reappear in the 1st Episode of Discovery, It feel like a first contact situation. At that time, Both Captain Georgiou and the admiral showed that they don't understand at all about Klingon. The problem is, we have Kobayashi Maru scenario in starfleet Academy. And Kirk was cheated on it. So according to Star Trek Strange New World, Kirk was already a Lieutenant. That means, Kirk faced Kobayashi Maru scenario prior to Discovery Season 1. So everyone in Starfleet should already know about Klingons. Then why did they so ignorant in the first episode of Discovery, to an extend that it create a fatal situation to the fleet.

I'm sure that for Klingon to become the adversary in Kobayashi Maru scenario means that Federation / Starfleet has already has enough information about Klingon; more than what happen in Discovery Season 1. At least Georgiou would use Kobayashi Maru as a reference, or using the data from the 22nd century as the basis of their decision.

 

[Uncle Sock]

I’ve always understood it to mean that they haven’t had direct contact with the Klingons, but I never took it to mean that everyone simply forgot about them. I’m pretty sure Starfleet maintained tactical analyses and strategic projections on the Klingons, since they were known antagonists. From that perspective, it makes sense that Klingons would be included in the Kobayashi Maru scenario, even if there hadn’t been any direct contact with them in a hundred years.

Of course, we don’t really know what “no direct contact” actually means. I'd argue there were isolated incidents over the course of a century. Or "no direct contact" simply means "no official contact". Even in today's world there can be "no official diplomatic contact" with another nation and still, we know they exist and we have knowledge about them.

 

[The Wormhole]

In tie-in material, the identity of the enemy in the Kobayashi Maru simulation changes to reflect who is most likely that Starfleet officers are going to face in combat. Granted, onscreen material always features the Klingons in the simulation, even when we see it on Prodigy during a time when Klingons are allies. Although, we know from Disco S4 the Kobayashi Maru simulation is still around in the 32nd century, and given what the Starfleet Academy series just established, it probably isn't Klingons who are the enemy there.

And ultimately, the enemy's identity doesn't matter. The whole point of the test is for participants to experience what it's like to be in a losing scenario. Who they are fighting against when they lose really is irrelevant to the whole matter.

 

[Turtletrekker]

In the 32nd century, the simulation probably featured either the Emerald Chain until recently, or the Venari Ral.

 

[FredH]

There was little direct contact, but there were occasional skirmishes, such as the Battle of Donatu V, which I believe gets a direct mention in the Discovery pilot.

 

[Dukhat]

Ok, based on the new Discovery canon, the Fed hasn't been in contact with Klingon for at least 100 years. When they're reappear in the 1st Episode of Discovery, It feel like a first contact situation. At that time, Both Captain Georgiou and the admiral showed that they don't understand at all about Klingon.

Never mind about the Kobayashi Maru. What I don't understand is how they can say there was no contact with the Klingons in 100 years, while at the same time having the main character and her family get attacked by Klingons when she was a girl. Isn't that like, the exact opposite of 'no contact?'

 

[David cgc]

In tie-in material, the identity of the enemy in the Kobayashi Maru simulation changes to reflect who is most likely that Starfleet officers are going to face in combat. Granted, onscreen material always features the Klingons in the simulation, even when we see it on Prodigy during a time when Klingons are allies.

There's a holodeck simulation in "Learning Curve" where Voyager is fighting the Romulans which is lightly implied to be the Kobayashi Maru.

 

[The Wormhole]

There's a holodeck simulation in "Learning Curve" where Voyager is fighting the Romulans which is lightly implied to be the Kobayashi Maru.

My impression was that was less about facing a no-win scenario and more focused on testing the participant's tactics and strategy. Indeed, at the end of that simulation Tuvok even asks why no one considered surrender or retreat.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Ok, based on the new Discovery canon, the Fed hasn't been in contact with Klingon for at least 100 years. When they're reappear in the 1st Episode of Discovery, It feel like a first contact situation. At that time, Both Captain Georgiou and the admiral showed that they don't understand at all about Klingon. The problem is, we have Kobayashi Maru scenario in starfleet Academy. And Kirk was cheated on it. So according to Star Trek Strange New World, Kirk was already a Lieutenant. That means, Kirk faced Kobayashi Maru scenario prior to Discovery Season 1. So everyone in Starfleet should already know about Klingons. Then why did they so ignorant in the first episode of Discovery, to an extend that it create a fatal situation to the fleet.

I'm sure that for Klingon to become the adversary in Kobayashi Maru scenario means that Federation / Starfleet has already has enough information about Klingon; more than what happen in Discovery Season 1. At least Georgiou would use Kobayashi Maru as a reference, or using the data from the 22nd century as the basis of their decision.

First contact with Klingons was "Broken Bow", an Enterprise episode. They're seen throughout the series then presumably go quiet... except Disco contradicts itself because of Michael's biological parents are attacked by Klingons decades before "The Vulcan Hello"

But the point is, they were known and had issues with the Federation, enough for a testing simulation about them being plausible.

 

[Farscape One]

Never mind about the Kobayashi Maru. What I don't understand is how they can say there was no contact with the Klingons in 100 years, while at the same time having the main character and her family get attacked by Klingons when she was a girl. Isn't that like, the exact opposite of 'no contact?'

Exactly. I'd think that Klingon attack where Burnham was as a kid would qualify as a contact. Obviously, not good contact, but still contact.

DISCO dropping the ball with such an obvious error, in their first episode no less, was just a preview of the overall bad writing we'd be enduring for the next 5 seasons.

 

[HIjol]

Interesting points being made here...I went a' huntin' for some substantive answers, and though this is an AI summary, I did find the truths of the points listed below from other sources and quotes...

These "answers" don't exactly excite me, as I am as much of a Canon Person as the next person.
But, at least the points you all are making above are sort of addressed by the BTP???

"The writers and producers provided several reasons for these changes, focusing on aesthetic, cultural, and behind-the-scenes factors rather than a strict timeline explanation:

• "Sexy, Vital, and Different": Original showrunner Bryan Fuller wanted to shake up the Klingon design, desiring them to look more "aesthete" rather than just "thugs" and to be "sexy and vital".
• A "Different House" Explanation: Producers, including makeup effects designer Glenn Hetrick, explained that the Klingons seen in Season 1 were a specific, isolated, or "ancient" sect of Klingons (specifically T'Kuvma's followers). The idea was that the Klingon Empire is diverse, with 24 houses, and we were seeing a different, more extremist faction.
• Wartime Appearance (Head Shaving): In Season 2, the Klingons grew their hair back. The explanation provided was that the Klingons in Season 1 shaved their heads as a sign of religious zealotry and mourning during a time of war.
• Evolutionary Imperative: Glenn Hetrick argued that the new look was a natural "evolution" of the design, stating the Klingons are a "cross between reptilian and avian".
• Modern Budget/Technology: The producers argued that with a higher modern budget, they could create a more detailed, alien look that was not possible in the 1960s (TOS) or 1980s (TNG)."

 

[Turtletrekker]

Bryan Fuller has said in an interview that in his last full day as Discovery showrunner he approved uniform designs that were not used and rejected the Klingon design that was used.

 

[Dukhat]

Interesting points being made here...I went a' huntin' for some substantive answers, and though this is an AI summary, I did find the truths of the points listed below from other sources and quotes...

These "answers" don't exactly excite me, as I am as much of a Canon Person as the next person.
But, at least the points you all are making above are sort of addressed by the BTP???

"The writers and producers provided several reasons for these changes, focusing on aesthetic, cultural, and behind-the-scenes factors rather than a strict timeline explanation:

• "Sexy, Vital, and Different": Original showrunner Bryan Fuller wanted to shake up the Klingon design, desiring them to look more "aesthete" rather than just "thugs" and to be "sexy and vital".
• A "Different House" Explanation: Producers, including makeup effects designer Glenn Hetrick, explained that the Klingons seen in Season 1 were a specific, isolated, or "ancient" sect of Klingons (specifically T'Kuvma's followers). The idea was that the Klingon Empire is diverse, with 24 houses, and we were seeing a different, more extremist faction.
• Wartime Appearance (Head Shaving): In Season 2, the Klingons grew their hair back. The explanation provided was that the Klingons in Season 1 shaved their heads as a sign of religious zealotry and mourning during a time of war.
• Evolutionary Imperative: Glenn Hetrick argued that the new look was a natural "evolution" of the design, stating the Klingons are a "cross between reptilian and avian".
• Modern Budget/Technology: The producers argued that with a higher modern budget, they could create a more detailed, alien look that was not possible in the 1960s (TOS) or 1980s (TNG)."

Most of these points were given after the fact, were probably not the original intentions, and even a few were immediately contradicted by on-screen evidence (e.g. we see flashbacks to when T'Kuvma was a boy, and he and the rest of the Klingons still had bald heads.)

 

[Uncle Sock]

I never believed the Klingons were "a cross between reptilian and avian".

 

[Set Harth]

Glenn Hetrick argued that the new look was a natural "evolution" of the design, stating the Klingons are a "cross between reptilian and avian".

Tell me you never watched Star Trek...

 

[HIjol]

Maybe he saw “Arena” and got…confused???

 

[Uncle Sock]

Or maybe he thinks a cross between reptilian and avian is "sexy, vital and different".

 

[Set Harth]

 

[Detached Nacelle]

The Burnhams weren't exactly doing anything that was officially Federation business so the attack on the time crystal research doesn't really constitute Federation-Klingon contact to maintain deniability.

But it does most likely mean diplomatic relations since you had Donatu as well. Possibly something big went down in the 22nd century maybe even the Salem station thing if we don't consider it a literal century was a Klingon conflict and neither side spoke to each other for decades and firefights broke out whenever they crossed paths.

But until the Shenzhou incident there had never been any formal declarations of war just skirmishes and unease which would make the Klingons a viable Kobayashi Maru candidate being an openly hostile power for a very long time.