Klingons & Weapons of Mass Destruction

[Samuel]

Given all the harping about Klingon "honor" you see in Star Trek one would think they would have an aversion to using weapons of mass destruction given WMDs mow down other beings pretty indiscrimanently with little opportunities for individual glory.

Yet we know the Klingons use deadly nerve gases (Theragen mentioned in "The Tholian Web")

And the weapon the Klingon uses to destroy the entire biosphere of a planet in "The Chase" certainly would qualify as a WMD.

So what gives?

 

[USS Firefly]

I think that the Klingons are as honorable as the Romulans.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I see what you did there.

 

[DoBravery]

Hi! I think Klingon honor is modeled after Japanese warrior/Samurai culture/code in a lot of ways.
To that point, though there may be honor among their own ranks, that often fell away when dealing with outside races or cultures. Kind of referring to Japanese perception to other nationalities in WW2.
Klingons and the Japanese seldom took prisoners/surrendered.
Not trying to start a debate on how war brings out the worst.. But more how a culture of "honor" justifies dishonorable acts by seeing their enemy has beneath them/their honor.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In 24th century Trek era, Worf is pretty much the only Klingon who lives up to the code of honor at face value. For every other Klingon we see it's a political tool, much like 'Family values' in American politics.

Though, I believe that the greatest honor is in victory. WMD are not deceitful, just extremely brutal, so there's no reason to think it wouldn't be considered honorable. In the 23rd century the Klingons seemed to be far less honorable, so maybe after the tribal period after they united and formed the high council, victory and strength was all that was considered important, and then later Klingon politicians started flouting 'honor' in order to manipulate the nostalgic. (Klingon society has gone to hell, back in my childhood we had a thing called HONOR!)

Thinking about this gave me an idea. We know there are Klingons alive in the 23rd century who were still alive in the TNG era. Could Mogh appear in Discovery?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Could Mogh appear in Discovery?

Unlikely. I'm sure he hasn't even been born yet.

Mogh's father, Colonel Worf from ST VI, could conceivably appear, although even that is unlikely as Colonel Worf would probably be a teenager (at most) as of DSC's time period.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Unlikely. I'm sure he hasn't even been born yet.

Mogh's father, Colonel Worf from ST VI, could conceivably appear, although even that is unlikely as Colonel Worf would probably be a teenager (at most) as of DSC's time period.

Ahh, didn't realize Mogh was aged in STVI, thought he had never been officially aged.

You think Klingons don't draft teenagers?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You think Klingons don't draft teenagers?

No, actually you're right, they do. I'd forgotten about the later DS9 episodes, where Alexander Rozhenko was already a member of the Klingon Defense Force when he was only 9 years old (it would seem that Klingons do age faster than humans). So I suppose Worf Sr. could indeed appear on DSC.

But given the similarity of names, I still think it's unlikely. The name "Worf" is typically associated with TNG, and (even though it's a different character) fans might be a bit confused if a character with that name turns up on DSC. Even though we already know one Worf is the grandfather of the other.

 

[BillJ]

Losing isn't honorable. That is the only kind of honor Klingons care about.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The main reason I'd expect Klingons to steer clear of WMDs is that they are usually keen on taking and holding other planets for occupation. WMDs are for total destruction, not conquest, amirite?

 

[Prax]

WMDs aren't for battle, they're for punishment.

 

[Tenacity]

Photon torpedoes have chunk of antimatter in them.

Lot's of people in Star Trek uses WMD's.

 

[Samuel]

Photon torpedoes have chunk of antimatter in them
Lot's of people in Star Trek uses WMD's.

Actually from what we've seen onscreen in Star Trek, photon torpedoes are pretty clean and precise weapons. Antimatter devices would probably be extremely "clean" as in not producing lots of radioactivity.

 

[The Wormhole]

"In war, there is nothing more honourable than victory." -Worf, The Way of the Warrior

 

[Tracy Trek]

In 24th century Trek era, Worf is pretty much the only Klingon who lives up to the code of honor at face value. For every other Klingon we see it's a political tool, much like 'Family values' in American politics.

That's what I thought as well. I especially thought that where he was given a chance to get his revenge on the House of Duras by killing Toral, who was the son of Duras. He elected not to do so. Someone (I think it might have been his brother Kurn), "It's the Klingon way". But Worf said, "It's not my way".

I sort of brought up the same idea in a thread about how the Klingon's were so up in arms about how Kirk rescued himself and his crew/defeated Kruge at the Genesis planet. The Klingons were acting like he was the devil himself. They had no remorse for killing David or blowing up the USS Grissom.

 

[Samuel]

That's what I thought as well. I especially thought that where he was given a chance to get his revenge on the House of Duras by killing Toral, who was the son of Duras. He elected not to do so. Someone (I think it might have been his brother Kurn), "It's the Klingon way". But Worf said, "It's not my way".

I sort of brought up the same idea in a thread about how the Klingon's were so up in arms about how Kirk rescued himself and his crew/defeated Kruge at the Genesis planet. The Klingons were acting like he was the devil himself. They had no remorse for killing David or blowing up the USS Grissom.

In fairness David Marcus died fighting and blowing up the U.S.S. Grissom was accidental. Remember Kruge killed his own weapons officer who did so.

 

[Tracy Trek]

In fairness David Marcus died fighting and blowing up the U.S.S. Grissom was accidental. Remember Kruge killed his own weapons officer who did so.

But didn't you sort of get the idea that the Klingons thought that Kirk was dishonorable for the way he beat Kruge? Tricking Kruge's crew into beaming over and getting blown up for their trouble. Tricking Maltz into thinking he was beaming up Kruge.

 

[Samuel]

But didn't you sort of get the idea that the Klingons thought that Kirk was dishonorable for the way he beat Kruge? Tricking Kruge's crew into beaming over and getting blown up for their trouble. Tricking Maltz into thinking he was beaming up Kruge.

Yes because in The Undiscovered Country it was footage of the Klingon boarding party being blown up aboard Enterprise that the Klingon ambassador chose to use to make his "no peace as long as Kirk lives" point to the Federation Council

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But didn't you sort of get the idea that the Klingons thought that Kirk was dishonorable for the way he beat Kruge? Tricking Kruge's crew into beaming over and getting blown up for their trouble. Tricking Maltz into thinking he was beaming up Kruge.

If anything, it'd be dishonorable for Maltz to be dumb enough to fall for it in the first place.

 

[Samuel]

If anything, it'd be dishonorable for Maltz to be dumb enough to fall for it in the first place.

Kruge seemed pretty intelligent but most of his crew seemed completely ignorant.

"The ship seems to be run by computer. It is the only thing speaking".