Klingon War Arc

[Photon]

Someone enlighten me about this arc. We know the Klingons were at war w/Cardassia but what about the Feds (S4/S5)? There were battles and Klingon attacks on Fed colonies (Jake and Bashir) at Ajilon Prime, but was there ever a formal declaration from either side. Yes, Gowron took the Klingons out of the peace accords but it never seemed to be concrete the the Klingons and Feds were in a war.

Thoughts?

 

[Anthony Sabre]

Once they withdrew from the Khitomer accords it was basically like the old days. There was no formal war dec but Starfleet ships were fair game. In the episode Apocalypse Rising, the Klingon Sisko knocks out brags about having beamed aboard a starship during battle and killed the captain. They had some very serious confrontations.

 

[Timo]

At the conclusion of "Apocalypse Rising", Gowron certainly considers the ongoing fighting a "war" and agrees to consider a "cease fire". Obviously, the cease fire doesn't last in practice, but the battles after Gowron's words might be interpreted as "private" fighting of the sort that happened during the long alliance (cf. "Aquiel").

It's too bad that "By Inferno's Light" sheds no further light, infernal or otherwise, on the issue. Gowron just signs on to a couple of new and a couple of old joint defensive arrangements, without mentioning an ongoing war or its cessation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Hermiod]

^That's how the Klingons operate, though. They are in a constant state of hostility with anyone they aren't formally at peace with. They and the Romulans are always attacking each other in border skirmishes too.

In "Broken Link", IIRC, Gowron does say that it would be war if the Federation did not withdraw from the Archanis Sector.

Their mining of Bajoran space in "Sons of Mogh" could be considered an act of war too.

"The Klingon Empire is tired of words, of negotiation, of the endless delaying tactics of the Federation. Therefore as of today, a Klingon task force has been dispatched to the Archanis sector. Starfleet has ten days to abandon their bases and withdraw their forces from the sector. Any Starfleet vessels found in the sector after that time will be considered the enemy and fired upon. Let there be no mistake, no misinterpretation of my words. Archanis is ours and we will take it back. Resist us in any way, and there will be war."

 

[Timo]

Agreed...

In "Broken Link", IIRC, Gowron does say that it would be war if the Federation did not withdraw from the Archanis Sector.

Indeed. One wonders if there was a similarly half-declared state of war between the time the Klingon Ambassador stormed out of the hall in San Francisco, muttering "There will be no peace as long as Kirk lives!" and the time of the Khitomer Conference.

During "war", Klingons might attack their opponents with the full might of the Imperial Fleet. During "peace", they would only attack their opponents with the separate forces of the Houses. During "alliance", they would only attack when they were bored. During "marriage", the attacks would never cease.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[shatastrophic]

I always thought that once Gowron backed out of the Khitomer Accords it meant that the Klingons and the Federation were no longer allies. There was no longer a treaty to follow so the Klingons did what they liked. Mainly fighting the Cardassians. In the process of fighting Cardassians and gaining new territory, conflicts arose between Starfleet and the Klingons. This was all kinda going on in the Federation's backyard. Occasionally the Klingons got ambitious with territory that belonged to the Feds per the old treaty, that no doubt would result in fights with Starfleet when it came to border disputes. Maybe this was the case with Archanis.

In the end the Feds weren't at war with the Klingons, there just wasn't a formal alliance any longer due to the Feds not supporting the Klingons plan of occupying Cardassia to prevent the Dominion threat. Gowron talking of a cease fire only meant that Starfleet ships were not to be attacked for the time being. Gowron did this because Sisko reminded him of the whole idea that they all shouldn't be fighting each other.

 

[Hermiod]

^When the Klingons abandoned the Khitomer Accords in "The Way of the Warrior" they ceased to have any formal relationship with the Federation. The Klingons don't go overboard with diplomacy. You are either their friends or you are not.

However, when it came to the Archanis Sector, they warned the Federation that failure to leave would mean war. The Federation clearly did not leave as ordered. In "Apocalypse Rising" Sisko says that the Klingons were throwing everything they had at the Federation. This was not a border skirmish, it was outright war.

 

[Lint]

If you watch "By Inferno's Light" again,
You will see that gowron does sign the khitomer Accords once again

 

[Hermiod]

^Erm, yeah ? And ? "By Inferno's Light" is after the episodes I mention.

 

[shatastrophic]

^When the Klingons abandoned the Khitomer Accords in "The Way of the Warrior" they ceased to have any formal relationship with the Federation. The Klingons don't go overboard with diplomacy. You are either their friends or you are not.

However, when it came to the Archanis Sector, they warned the Federation that failure to leave would mean war. The Federation clearly did not leave as ordered. In "Apocalypse Rising" Sisko says that the Klingons were throwing everything they had at the Federation. This was not a border skirmish, it was outright war.

Oh, cool. I always saw Archanis as the beginning of the actual war, eventhough it was short. Season 4 to me was just an escalation to full war with the Klingons which finally began at the end of the season with the events of Archanis. When we start season 5 the Feds are knee deep, but season 4 was just a bunch of bloody noses.

 

[Hermiod]

^Yes, that's right.

Once Gowron withdrew from the Khitomer Accords, the same situation that existed between the Empire and the Federation all the way through TOS and up to The Undiscovered Country (and really a lot later than that, given what happened in "Yesterday's Enterprise") became true again.

However, what Deep Space Nine (and, to be fair, the TOS movies and TNG) did not take in to account was the Treaty of Organia. This predates the Khitomer Accords by decades. It established the Federation/Klingon Neutral Zone as well as who should have access to uninhabited worlds based on who would be able to develop them best. It was enforced by the Organians themselves, who demonstrated the ability to render both sides unable to fight if necessary.

Whether or not the Khitomer Accords superceded this treaty is unknown.

 

[shatastrophic]

^ I didn't even think of that. Kinda makes you wonder where they were at during all of the events within DS9!

 

[Hermiod]

^It possibly only applied to systems and planets within that given Klingon/Federation Neutral Zone. It's also possible that once the two powers showed that they were able to maintain the treaty themselves, the Organians no longer felt the need to impose the terms.

It is true that most Federation/Klingon conflicts we saw after that we initiated by people acting against the wishes of their governments - Kruge's attacks on the Grissom and the Enterprise, Klaa's attack on the Enterprise, the conspirators assassination of Chancellor Gorkon etc.

 

[Timo]

To be fair, we never saw the Organians "enforce" anything. All they ever did was stop the two sides from fighting on their precious planet, after which a later episode mentioned that there now was an "Organian Peace Treaty" in place.

Odds are, the Organians weren't behind that peace treaty. After all, they had no interest in the affairs of the outsiders (a certain ENT episode notwithstanding).

Instead, it seems that the Feds and Klingons took the opportunity of the forced truce and forged a peace treaty all by themselves. And that treaty wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on once one side or both decided that there was more advantage to breaking it than to abiding with it.

Timo Saloniemi