Klingon BoP Design Rationale

[Albertese]

I'm building a model of the Klingon BoP and I've been thinking about its design and why it looks the way it does (in-universe). I always wondered what's the point of having the guns so far out on the wings, and why have the wings be movable?

Here's what I came up with:

The the large radiator type assembly where the wings attach to the fuselage are indeed heat radiators. When cruising at warp speed, the wings are flat in order to have the most efficient warp geometry. The whole system produces low enough heat that the exposed surface of the radiators is enough to manage internal heat.

When landed, naturally, the wings need to be raised in order to keep them off the ground. What little heat generation there would be while landed is little enough that the small exposed area of the radiators is more than sufficient, especially considering that most landings will be on planetary bodies having a nice, dense, fluid atmosphere, like Earth, to help draw away heat.

While on attack, the wings are lowered in order to expose maximum possible radiator surface to help manage the heat of the disruptors. Why have them so far away? Well, Chekov's Klingon disruptor failed to fire in the radiation of the carrier Enterprise, maybe the generator of the Klingon ship is also somewhat radioactive and putting the guns so far out makes it less likely for the to interfere with the disruptor mechanism. Wouldn't it be embarrassing if the mighty Klingon fired the powerful disruptors only to hear a cute popping noise instead of the boiling snap of the disruptor cannon?!?

What do you think, sirs?

--Alex

 

[Timo]

I'm thinking the BoP has the variable wing geometry solely because she's supposed to land on planetary surfaces, where it's advantageous to lift the wings and attached stores clear of the ground, and fly through air, where it's advantageous to spread the wings. The wing movement doesn't exactly affect the ship's characteristics - it's there purely for allowing the ship to land.

The selection between extreme wings-down and some midposition is basically just a side product of that. Perhaps the horizontal position (only seen in space, typically at warp) is used because it gives the greatest possible spread between the wing cannon, which is good for coverage; perhaps it meshes well with the warp field. But wings-down is how the ship flies, and wings-up is how she parks.

That said, the idea of the multi-flange things as radiators is a nice one. Although they never glow in visible wavelengths, whereas the impulse grille does - and the warship would probably benefit from having its radiators mounted at the extreme stern, for stealth and for combat resilience.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SilentP]

To be honest, the wings are probably partly a cultural aesthetic design style. A predatory hunting look to their ships probably suits the Klingons down to the ground. Apart from possible overheating, there's not much 'face value' design advantage to having the disruptors so far away. In fact, there's a slight disadvantage in that it's impossible for the disruptors to be repaired or maintained by the crew in-flight (wouldn't be an issue in shipyards).

The 'one' bonus point I can think of a reason for this is that the Klingons primary adversary is the Federation, who are famous for restraint when in combat (i.e. only targetting weapons etc.), so placing the primary weapons of the ship away from the main body allow the Klingons to take advantage of this tendency while still keeping the ship intact. The B'rel is small enough as it is, so even if Federation adversaries were to try and target weapons, if said weapons were mounted on the main body, it's quite likely collateral damage would take out the whole ship.

 

[Timo]

Spurring the hobby-horse here:

"B'Rel" is what Worf calls those huge BoPs that overpower the E-D in "Rascals". They are the same giant machines we first saw in the parallel universe of "Yesterday's Enterprise", only in that parallel universe those were called K'Vort.

Some DS9 background graphics in turn suggest that Martok's small/midsize BoP is of the K'Vort class. Apparently, the two Klingon names were applied differently in the regular and parallel universes, switching places.

On the issue of mounting the main guns at a distance from the hull, that was the Klingon design style in ENT already, before humans became adversaries. Either your suggested design logic stems from the ENT-era Vulcans being major Klingon adversaries and having the same tendency to only target weapons - or then the big guns might be mounted far away from the crew because they are prone to backfiring or exploding, due to shoddy worksklingonship or the sheer audacious power levels of the weapons.

Or it might be that the small ships have no room for internally mounted disruptors, perhaps because Klingon tech is bulkier than average (again either because it's inferior in quality or because it's superior in power).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SilentP]

Spurring the hobby-horse here:

"B'Rel" is what Worf calls those huge BoPs that overpower the E-D in "Rascals". They are the same giant machines we first saw in the parallel universe of "Yesterday's Enterprise", only in that parallel universe those were called K'Vort.

Some DS9 background graphics in turn suggest that Martok's small/midsize BoP is of the K'Vort class. Apparently, the two Klingon names were applied differently in the regular and parallel universes, switching places.

I had no idea that the naming convention was so inconsistent during the series. I automatically went with B'rel for the smaller one, since that seems to be what nearly all the game do to differentiate the two size groupings.

On the issue of mounting the main guns at a distance from the hull, that was the Klingon design style in ENT already, before humans became adversaries. Either your suggested design logic stems from the ENT-era Vulcans being major Klingon adversaries and having the same tendency to only target weapons - or then the big guns might be mounted far away from the crew because they are prone to backfiring or exploding, due to shoddy worksklingonship or the sheer audacious power levels of the weapons.

You bring up a good point, I forgot the Klingon vessels in the ENT-era. I guess the Vulcans we saw back then were also a little less restrained than the TOS and beyond era Vulcans. This seems to lend weight to the latter option you present.

Or it might be that the small ships have no room for internally mounted disruptors, perhaps because Klingon tech is bulkier than average (again either because it's inferior in quality or because it's superior in power).

While I could understand them being externally mounted due to the size limitation, mounting them so far away seems to be a prohibitive thing to do...(not sure what I'm trying to get at with this last point.

 

[Unicron]

The only reason there are separate canonical variants is because the BOP model was inconsistently scaled in comparison to the Galaxy model. Personally I like the FASA explanation that the Klingons scaled the original scout sized vessel up behind the Romulans' backs, which they weren't supposed to do, and the Romulans eventually got back by copying the cruiser variant.

 

[blssdwlf]

@Albertese - I think Timo's rationale for the wings being there because of her intended atmospheric flight characteristics makes the most sense.

As to the "radiator assembly" perhaps they serve the same function as those angled parts on the rear dorsal of the Klingon Battlecruiser? The Klingon BOP shares many common points with the Battlecruiser - wing disruptors in same down position as the BC's nacelle disruptors, angled radiator-type assembly at the dorsal rear of main body, torpedo-type opening at forward command pod...

Perhaps the Klingon's consider the BOP a stepping stone to the larger Battlecruisers and what better way to train future captains than to have similar characteristics between ships?

 

[T'Girl]

Some thoughts on the moving wings, the weapons pods on the wing tips seem a bit large, what if they are more than just weapons?

Voyager's warp engines reposition themselves prior to going to warp, perhaps the pods and wings contain elements of the warp drive. The warp coils could be of a different shape and be located inside the wings. the wings can be positioned up or down for various warp flight speeds and maneuvers. The BoP's wings in TSFS might have been lowered to assist in the tight turn we saw just prior to the destruction of the small shuttle carrying the Klingon spy.

The wing would be level for atmosphere, acting as actual wings. And then go all the way up for vertical take-offs and landings, raising the warp drive and weapons away from the flying ground debris cloud we saw during lift-off in TVH.

The reactor would still be inside the main body. Along with the converters, antimatter pods, deuterium tanks, impulse engines. If the bird has bussard collectors, they would be in the leading edges of the wings. Although it's possible that a short range craft wouldn't need them, existing only with stored fuel.

the multi-flange things as radiators

Providing that the warp coils and things like plasma conduits are located within the wing structure, having any heat radiating mechanism immediately adjacent would make sense. ,Starfleet ship's "blue glow" chillers are relatively small for their given engine sizes, but making the BoP's wing radiators fairly large (the entire upper and lower surface), you would disburse the energy output per square meter, making the ship somewhat harder to detect using infra-red sensors.

 

[david lowbridge]

surely having the two weapons where they are allows the klingons to have a slightly larger firing arc than if they were stuck below the bridge? in theory, say the bop was 100 metres across, and the weapon could rotate 45 degrees in either direction and had a range of 10 (small for the example)... then they would have a small targeting area of 314... however if they placed them on the wings the two disruptors would have double the kill zone area because each weapon would have its own arc so the killzone would be 628 (altough there would be some overlap, the basic point remains).

a larger killzone would certainly be beneficial for a warrior people...

EDIT:

Further thought: why do the klingons only have forward facing weapons, compared to Federation and other power's full arc weapons, seems a little silly for a warrior race. All you would need to do is to run up behind the klingons and fire at them... then as they turned round to fight you would have further opportunity to hit them before they could fire back...

 

[Tomalak]

We don't know it doesn't have an aft torpedo launcher, but on a small ship like that, they can count on better manoeuvrability. The Defiant's the same, they supposedly have aft torpedoes but I don't recall we ever see them fire. There may be a verbal reference though.

 

[Timo]

We see an aft torpedo emerging in "Paradise Lost", after Worf flies across the Lakota's topside and does a barrel roll (not in the later shot where he flies along the topside and fires phasers). There's also a verbal reference to giving the pursuit a parting gift in "The Die is Cast": Sisko orders aft torpedoes (plural) fired, but there is no exterior shot of this.

There appears to be an aft-firing disruptor on at least one BoP type, too. In "Way of the Warrior", three BoPs attack Dukat's cruiser, and the Defiant rushes to help, firing at two of them from behind. One responds with a single aft disruptor bolt that comes from somewhere in the lower midbody... These are fairly large BoPs, the same general size as Martok's vessel, rather than the midgets from the fight with the DS9 station later in the episode.

The warp coils could be of a different shape and be located inside the wings.

Quite possibly so. Klingon computer displays (mainly in DS9) steer clear of showing any obvious warp coil sets. The closest to a "layout view" is probably this one:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x14/returngrace_227.jpg

Might be paired coils we're seeing, might be some other reason for highlighting the "radiator" or "shoulder" areas in amber.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

Klingon computer displays (mainly in DS9) steer clear of showing any obvious warp coil sets.

I distinctly remember an LCARS top-view display of a BoP where it shows what looks like warp coils going down the middle of the ship, indicating the (1?) warp nacelle is actually inside the ship, not in or on the wings.

What I find odd is that the early ENT BoP's nacelles look to be those two glowing structures on the top rear of the ship. The regular BoP has similar structures too, but they're smaller and don't glow.

 

[Timo]

I clearly remember that display as well - but despite years of searching, I haven't found it on screen anywhere. IIRC, it was published in some book in black-and-white, like an early step in making a LCARS transparency, but it might have been a fan website just as well. Many works, including the SciPubTech cutaway poster and our very own LCARS24 displays, follow that lead and postulate internal coil sets.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Darkwing]

The BoP was originally supposed to be a Romulan ship, hence the wings. I figure that, to make them look like they served a function, they needed either guns or engines at the tips, and the engines were already mounted in the center aft, so guns were mounted on the wings.

 

[Darkwing]

double post -sorry

 

[Forbin]

Just to throw a monkey-wrench in, my personal belief is that those big radiator-like things are in fact the warp coils. Where else would the warp-generating device be?

 

[Timo]

Well, generally warp engines glow - and there's a menacingly glowing component at the stern of the ship. Quite possibly the warp engine.

Then again, there was no glow to the TOS warp engines, and precious little glow to the TOS impulse engines even in the re-effected visuals. So the radiator things are a definite maybe for warp engines.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Forbin]

They're the only feature on the ship that look like an opposing pair of electromagnetic thingamabobs, even though they're not enclosed in nacelles.

 

[Saquist]

I'm building a model of the Klingon BoP and I've been thinking about its design and why it looks the way it does (in-universe). I always wondered what's the point of having the guns so far out on the wings, and why have the wings be movable?

Here's what I came up with:

The the large radiator type assembly where the wings attach to the fuselage are indeed heat radiators. When cruising at warp speed, the wings are flat in order to have the most efficient warp geometry. The whole system produces low enough heat that the exposed surface of the radiators is enough to manage internal heat.

When landed, naturally, the wings need to be raised in order to keep them off the ground. What little heat generation there would be while landed is little enough that the small exposed area of the radiators is more than sufficient, especially considering that most landings will be on planetary bodies having a nice, dense, fluid atmosphere, like Earth, to help draw away heat.

While on attack, the wings are lowered in order to expose maximum possible radiator surface to help manage the heat of the disruptors. Why have them so far away? Well, Chekov's Klingon disruptor failed to fire in the radiation of the carrier Enterprise, maybe the generator of the Klingon ship is also somewhat radioactive and putting the guns so far out makes it less likely for the to interfere with the disruptor mechanism. Wouldn't it be embarrassing if the mighty Klingon fired the powerful disruptors only to hear a cute popping noise instead of the boiling snap of the disruptor cannon?!?

What do you think, sirs?

--Alex

Hate to burst your bubble but wing are always going to be disruptive to field mechanics not help them. What I mean is (The traditional Wing). Fields are shaped but the objects their emitted from and sharp angles make fields weaker not stronger.

 

[Timo]

Naahh. Many fields are generated by pairs of flat plates, which may be stacked (like those radiator thingamabobs on the shoulders of that ship) or placed at an angle (like wings of that ship), with variable geometry often featuring in both setups.

Not to mention that Trek is notorious for its "gravity plates", which may be what's built into those wings for the all-important planetary landing function of the BoP. A bit like the repulsorlifts of Star Wars technology: shaped a particular way for some nonsensical technobabble reason that allows them to look cool.

Timo Saloniemi