DumbDumb2007
Commander
Was Kirk promoted to Admiral right after the 5 Year Mission ended ? Or would he have been made into a Fleet Captain first and then a Commodore and then an Admiral?
Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Mission ?
- Thread starter DumbDumb2007
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All he did was save the Earth's Solar System (at least) a few dozen times, despite odds of 1 in 6.02 x 10^23 (multiplying togetrher many Spock estimates.
According to various novels and comic books that's what happened but nothing has been established canonically.
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
Several factors to consider here:
1) We don't know the time interval between Kirk's 5YM and his first appearance as a (Rear) Admiral in TMP. All we know is that at least 2.5 years passed without Kirk logging any star hours, hence TMP probably is at least 2.5 years after the 5YM.
2) We don't know the exact rank schemes for TOS and/or TMP, especially regarding flag ranks. Does "Fleet Captain" exist as a rank discinct from Captain, or is it just another fancy name for the same thing? Is "Commodore" a necessary rung in climbing the rank ladder, or something optional?
3) Once you make Admiral, it doesn't much matter which sort of Admiral you are. If you are good enough for Rear Admiral (or perhaps Commodore), then today's navies could promote you to Vice Admiral or full Admiral at the drop of a hat so that your pips would match your current job. Indeed, you might subsequently be demoted back to Rear Admiral without much ado. At flag rank, the pips don't increase in an orderly procession.
Given all the variables, I tend to think that Kirk was promoted from Captain (which IMHO is the same as Fleet Captain) to Commodore after the 5YM, then after a few years was given the boost to Rear Admiral (supposedly the lowest possible pips for holding the Chief of Starfleet Ops billet), and then TMP happened about half a decade after the 5YM. But that's completely IMHO.
Timo Saloniemi
Several factors to consider here:
1) We don't know the time interval between Kirk's 5YM and his first appearance as a (Rear) Admiral in TMP. All we know is that at least 2.5 years passed without Kirk logging any star hours, hence TMP probably is at least 2.5 years after the 5YM.
2) We don't know the exact rank schemes for TOS and/or TMP, especially regarding flag ranks. Does "Fleet Captain" exist as a rank discinct from Captain, or is it just another fancy name for the same thing? Is "Commodore" a necessary rung in climbing the rank ladder, or something optional?
3) Once you make Admiral, it doesn't much matter which sort of Admiral you are. If you are good enough for Rear Admiral (or perhaps Commodore), then today's navies could promote you to Vice Admiral or full Admiral at the drop of a hat so that your pips would match your current job. Indeed, you might subsequently be demoted back to Rear Admiral without much ado. At flag rank, the pips don't increase in an orderly procession.
Given all the variables, I tend to think that Kirk was promoted from Captain (which IMHO is the same as Fleet Captain) to Commodore after the 5YM, then after a few years was given the boost to Rear Admiral (supposedly the lowest possible pips for holding the Chief of Starfleet Ops billet), and then TMP happened about half a decade after the 5YM. But that's completely IMHO.
Timo Saloniemi
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
However, according to a lot of other novels and comics, there was a communal train of thought among some writers (and some who started out as fanfic authors) that Kirk commanded a full second five-year mission between TOS/TAS and TMP. However, when the recent "Rihannsu" omnibus was released, Diane Duane had taken the opportunity to revise her first two Romulan novels ("My Enemy, My Ally" and "The Romulan Way") to incorporate the now-better accepted timeline (confirmed by Icheb's line in VOY), which places Kirk's second 5YM between TMP and ST II.
However, according to a lot of other novels and comics, there was a communal train of thought among some writers (and some who started out as fanfic authors) that Kirk commanded a full second five-year mission between TOS/TAS and TMP. However, when the recent "Rihannsu" omnibus was released, Diane Duane had taken the opportunity to revise her first two Romulan novels ("My Enemy, My Ally" and "The Romulan Way") to incorporate the now-better accepted timeline (confirmed by Icheb's line in VOY), which places Kirk's second 5YM between TMP and ST II.
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
...Which is a better fit overall (not the least because Kirk in TMP only speaks of spending five years out there, not ten!), but creates its own problems when these "second mission" stories fail to acknowledge Kirk's past as a Rear Admiral and TMP hero.
A second mission of space adventure would be welcome in the sense that Kirk's desk job depression in ST2 would then be a recent thing. If it were something that had begun a decade prior, then McCoy would be a bit lax in his duties as a doctor and a friend...
Interesting (and realistic!) that Meyer chose not to give Kirk any further promotions between TMP and ST2.
Timo Saloniemi
...Which is a better fit overall (not the least because Kirk in TMP only speaks of spending five years out there, not ten!), but creates its own problems when these "second mission" stories fail to acknowledge Kirk's past as a Rear Admiral and TMP hero.
A second mission of space adventure would be welcome in the sense that Kirk's desk job depression in ST2 would then be a recent thing. If it were something that had begun a decade prior, then McCoy would be a bit lax in his duties as a doctor and a friend...
Interesting (and realistic!) that Meyer chose not to give Kirk any further promotions between TMP and ST2.
Timo Saloniemi
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
^Yeah, Meyer should've promoted Kirk to Grand Pumba of Starfleet.
^Yeah, Meyer should've promoted Kirk to Grand Pumba of Starfleet.
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
The completely non-canon FASA RPG timeline had him serving a brief, obligatory stint as Commodore before being promoted to Admiral...about six months, IIRC.
The completely non-canon FASA RPG timeline had him serving a brief, obligatory stint as Commodore before being promoted to Admiral...about six months, IIRC.
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
I think you meant Poobah... I believe Pumba is a warthog...
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
"Live long and hakuna matata."
"Live long and hakuna matata."
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
Hoo, boy... I just had a weird mental image of Nathan Lane...
Hoo, boy... I just had a weird mental image of Nathan Lane...
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
Actually, I like the idea presented in the novelization of TMP that Kirk's promotion straight to admiral was purely politically-motivated. Following the 5-year mission, Kirk had become something of a folk hero within the Federation and his exploits aboard the Enterprise already the stuff of legend. The novelization had it that the promotion was forced on Kirk and he became commanding admiral Nogura's unofficial PR tool until the V'Ger Incident...
Actually, I like the idea presented in the novelization of TMP that Kirk's promotion straight to admiral was purely politically-motivated. Following the 5-year mission, Kirk had become something of a folk hero within the Federation and his exploits aboard the Enterprise already the stuff of legend. The novelization had it that the promotion was forced on Kirk and he became commanding admiral Nogura's unofficial PR tool until the V'Ger Incident...
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
Right. Kirk was looking for a way to get the Enterprise back and V'Ger came at the right time. He convinced Nogura that he was the right man for the job and Decker was too inexperienced.
Kirk was so eager to get the Enterprise back that there were instances he didn't seem like himself.
Right. Kirk was looking for a way to get the Enterprise back and V'Ger came at the right time. He convinced Nogura that he was the right man for the job and Decker was too inexperienced.
Kirk was so eager to get the Enterprise back that there were instances he didn't seem like himself.
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
I also thought his promotion was politics based and may also done to get him off of starship command due to his "unique" interpretation of some Starfleet orders.
I also thought his promotion was politics based and may also done to get him off of starship command due to his "unique" interpretation of some Starfleet orders.
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
^That, also, is possible...
^That, also, is possible...
Re: Kirk was promoted to Admiral right after the 5 yr Missi
According to the novelization for TMP (Star Trek: The Movie the book, lol) he was given an automatic promotion to Rear Admiral, mostly to keep him out of trouble. Being that he was the only ship captain to return from his five year mission with his ship and command crew in tact, that sort of made him a hero in the publics eye. Starfleet couldn't risk sending him back out there to put himself in harms way, basically because it would be bad press. So they gave him a grand, honorary title that keeps the rope around him so he can't leave Earth for any logical reason. After his successful voyage into the V'Ger cloud, again, he was a public hero. This severely weakened the brass' possition. But being that we see him as, again, an Admiral in TWOK, it's entirely possible that he was bumped back down to military education for reasons unknown.
Perhaps it was a personal choice. We know that Kirk left Starfleet for a time, (established in Generations) and it's widely speculated that it was after TMP that he took his leave of absence. But, since the Refit Enterprise was the right old age of 12 by the time TWOK came around, it's entirely possible that Kirk took his sebatical after a five year mission on the new Refit E. We know that pretty much the entire crew retired themselves to Academy duty, so it's entirely possible that the Enterprise was under the care of another crew for a while.
Kirk finally decides he's had enough of retired life, and decides he wants to rejoin Starfleet. This time, instead of being a hero, however, he becomes a teacher, to mold the minds of the future and to rejoin his comrades. The Enterprise is returning home after yet another five year mission after being in the custodian of another crew. Kirk, of course, has followed the career of his old gal since he had retired (heros are often privy to quite an extensive network of info) and offers to rejoin as an instructor at the academy under the condition that he be allowed to train his cadets aboard the now 10 years old Refit Enterprise. Of course Starfleet leaps at the idea of having one of their most heroic and brilliant tacticians training and molding the future minds of the fleet. They agree and this so follows up into The Wrath of Khan.
According to the novelization for TMP (Star Trek: The Movie the book, lol) he was given an automatic promotion to Rear Admiral, mostly to keep him out of trouble. Being that he was the only ship captain to return from his five year mission with his ship and command crew in tact, that sort of made him a hero in the publics eye. Starfleet couldn't risk sending him back out there to put himself in harms way, basically because it would be bad press. So they gave him a grand, honorary title that keeps the rope around him so he can't leave Earth for any logical reason. After his successful voyage into the V'Ger cloud, again, he was a public hero. This severely weakened the brass' possition. But being that we see him as, again, an Admiral in TWOK, it's entirely possible that he was bumped back down to military education for reasons unknown.
Perhaps it was a personal choice. We know that Kirk left Starfleet for a time, (established in Generations) and it's widely speculated that it was after TMP that he took his leave of absence. But, since the Refit Enterprise was the right old age of 12 by the time TWOK came around, it's entirely possible that Kirk took his sebatical after a five year mission on the new Refit E. We know that pretty much the entire crew retired themselves to Academy duty, so it's entirely possible that the Enterprise was under the care of another crew for a while.
Kirk finally decides he's had enough of retired life, and decides he wants to rejoin Starfleet. This time, instead of being a hero, however, he becomes a teacher, to mold the minds of the future and to rejoin his comrades. The Enterprise is returning home after yet another five year mission after being in the custodian of another crew. Kirk, of course, has followed the career of his old gal since he had retired (heros are often privy to quite an extensive network of info) and offers to rejoin as an instructor at the academy under the condition that he be allowed to train his cadets aboard the now 10 years old Refit Enterprise. Of course Starfleet leaps at the idea of having one of their most heroic and brilliant tacticians training and molding the future minds of the fleet. They agree and this so follows up into The Wrath of Khan.
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