Kirk had to KILL her

[RobertScorpio]

Had Edith Keeler lived then she would have delayed our (USA) entry into the war and Hitler would have captured the world?? So the world would have gone down a darkened path...and for all we know, blown its self up with Nukes down the line....Heck, who knows, maybe the Mirror Universe is the result of that event...

Well, whatever would have happened, I still believe, having watched City On the Edge of Forever today, that it was far more dramatic for Kirk to not save her than for Spock to have done what he would have done. The drama comes from watching Kirk letting the only woman I think he really ever loved..die..so as to restore the future. It was a decision that would, as far as we can see from his future, lead him down a lonely life that, in Generations, he didn't want to leave again.

In fact, taking his 'lonely' life into account, you can see why he was so determined to make it work in his nexus setting. And with the death of Robare, you can see Picard feeling regret that he too never started a family...

City On The Edge holds up and is yet another great episode that shows us the lonely life these Starship captains live. They do give up a lot, and for what???

Of all the women Kirk has been with in the TV shows or movies, which ones do you think he would have been the most happiest with? Or do you think they were all destined to fail because of Kirk's desire to be a Starship Captain...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Good Will Riker]

We all know the themes, story, and the behind-the-scenes drama (Harlan Ellison, etc.) in regards to this popular episode, so all I can add is...

I agree.

 

[JNG]

Of all the women Kirk has been with in the TV shows or movies, which ones do you think he would have been the most happiest with? Or do you think they were all destined to fail because of Kirk's desire to be a Starship Captain...

I think Kirk would have found the most happiestness with the mysterious Antonia.

 

[Hermiod]

No matter what had happened, Kirk would never be happy settling down. He can't be happy unless he's in command of a Starship. That's what he was born to do.

 

[Gary Sebben]

Uh, couldn't the guardian have just brought Edith forward in time with the rest of them? That way she's not around to f things up. You know, like that whale lady in TVH.

 

[Hermiod]

^Her disappearance rather than her death might have caused other, less predictable changes.

 

[JoeZhang]

Had Edith Keeler lived then she would have delayed our (USA) entry into the war and Hitler would have captured the world?? So the world would have gone down a darkened path...and for all we know, blown its self up with Nukes down the line....Heck, who knows, maybe the Mirror Universe is the result of that event...

Well, whatever would have happened, I still believe, having watched City On the Edge of Forever today, that it was far more dramatic for Kirk to not save her than for Spock to have done what he would have done. The drama comes from watching Kirk letting the only woman I think he really ever loved..die..so as to restore the future. It was a decision that would, as far as we can see from his future, lead him down a lonely life that, in Generations, he didn't want to leave again.

In fact, taking his 'lonely' life into account, you can see why he was so determined to make it work in his nexus setting. And with the death of Robare, you can see Picard feeling regret that he too never started a family...

City On The Edge holds up and is yet another great episode that shows us the lonely life these Starship captains live. They do give up a lot, and for what???

Of all the women Kirk has been with in the TV shows or movies, which ones do you think he would have been the most happiest with? Or do you think they were all destined to fail because of Kirk's desire to be a Starship Captain...

Rob
Scorpio

Why couldn't he have taken her to the future?

 

[JNG]

Why couldn't he have taken her to the future?

Crap. You just kind of ruined that episode for me a little. Maybe there is a good reason and I'm too sleepy to think of it. Please, someone tell me this is so.

 

[Hermiod]

IIRC, the Guardian of Forever only created the portal for them to return after she died. The Guardian was an intelligent being in its own right, and was presumably following instructions given to it by Kirk and Spock when they followed McCoy through to the past.

 

[Captain Zog]

Wrong! He didn't have to kill her. He could have abducted her, taken her to the future like he did that marine biologist in Star Trek IV. She didn't have to die.

 

[Hermiod]

Wrong! He didn't have to kill her. He could have abducted her, taken her to the future like he did that marine biologist in Star Trek IV. She didn't have to die.

And risk creating an unpredictable set of changes to the timeline. She died, it is not Kirk's place to change that no matter his feelings for her.

 

[tranya]

Well, remember, Kirk and Spock had bear knives and stoneskins, so it's not like they could have done anything fancy to fake Edith's death in the 1930s. And, also, wouldn't their ability to bring her into the future depend on whether the Guardian even allowed it? We just don't know.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Well, remember, Kirk and Spock had bear knives and stoneskins, so it's not like they could have done anything fancy to fake Edith's death in the 1930s. And, also, wouldn't their ability to bring her into the future depend on whether the Guardian even allowed it? We just don't know.

I think she was meant to die in order to restore what was. It was 'her time'. And I don't think the Guardian would have allowed them monkey around with someone else's fate..

And Kirk didn't kidnap the girl from TREK 4, she jumped on Kirk and then was beamed aboard with them. Yes, they could have returned her, but really? They had time constraints. Had they taken the time to return before they saved the whales, its quite possible the whales would have died. They only saved the one because the harpoon hit the ship...

Rob

 

[Hermiod]

In Dr. Taylor's case, she jumped in to Kirk's transport beam as he was beaming back on to the Bird-of-Prey. They did not have time to wait, they had to go and find the two whales there and then and she had the knowledge of how to locate them.

I imagine, in Kirk's view, there was no time to waste, they had to get the whales and get back to the 23rd century. Taking Taylor with them, given that no human in 23rd century would know nearly as much about Humpback whales as Taylor did, was a calculated risk.

If, on the other hand, he had done the same thing with Edith, he would have been risking the timeline for nothing more than his personal feelings.

They only saved the one because the harpoon hit the ship...

Not sure what you're talking about here. The harpoon from the whaling vessel did hit the ship but it bounced off. The Klingons don't build combat spacecraft with hulls that can be penetrated by harpoons. Both George and Gracie were seen in the San Francisco Bay at the end of the film.

 

[RobertScorpio]

In Dr. Taylor's case, she jumped in to Kirk's transport beam as he was beaming back on to the Bird-of-Prey. They did not have time to wait, they had to go and find the two whales there and then and she had the knowledge of how to locate them.

I imagine, in Kirk's view, there was no time to waste, they had to get the whales and get back to the 23rd century. Taking Taylor with them, given that no human in 23rd century would know nearly as much about Humpback whales as Taylor did, was a calculated risk.

If, on the other hand, he had done the same thing with Edith, he would have been risking the timeline for nothing more than his personal feelings.

They only saved the one because the harpoon hit the ship...

Not sure what you're talking about here. The harpoon from the whaling vessel did hit the ship but it bounced off. The Klingons don't build combat spacecraft with hulls that can be penetrated by harpoons. Both George and Gracie were seen in the San Francisco Bay at the end of the film.

I meant that, like you were saying, had they stopped somewhere along the way and dropped Gillian of, then they may not have made it there on time and that harpoon that did hit the BOP would have hit the whale, and could have possibly killed it, or angered the whale enough for it to tell the probe in the future to kill these fricking humans...

But I agree with your reasoning..

Rob

 

[Steven Of Nine]

Of all the women Kirk has been with in the TV shows or movies, which ones do you think he would have been the most happiest with? Or do you think they were all destined to fail because of Kirk's desire to be a Starship Captain...

Rob
Scorpio

We're told repeatedly that he can't have a proper relationship, because of his career. But in a pinch? Carol Marcus.

 

[AJBryant]

IIRC, the Guardian of Forever only created the portal for them to return after she died. The Guardian was an intelligent being in its own right, and was presumably following instructions given to it by Kirk and Spock when they followed McCoy through to the past.

Correct. He had to *restore* the original timeline, not change it in yet another way.

 

[tranya]

Again, how would they have taken Edith to the future? Perhaps just saved her, and then yelled "HEY GUARDIAN LOL WE DIDN'T LET HER DIE HAHA BUT WE THINK SHE'S AWESUM SO LIKE TAKE US ALL TO THE FUTURE SO SHE NO MESS UP TIMELINE K THX" and then the Guardian would be all, like, "LOL U GOT ME OK I BRING U 2 TEH FUTURE NOW LET ME BE YR GATEWAY HAHA" and then they'd be like "LOL LET'S THE GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE AND GO PARTY ON MY SHIP K BEAM ME UP"?

(I think I really caught the spirit of Ellison's dialogue there, btw.)

 

[Kelso]

She didn't belong in the 23rd century, either. Hell, she might very well have screwed up 23rd century history in a worse way. We don't know how far reaching the guardian's knowledge was.

"All is as it was before"... that was the goal.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If Kirk had taken Edith with him, her disappearance might have changed the timeline in and of itself (the anti-war movement might have considered her a martyr). There had to be final proof that she was dead by car crash. The only way to do that was for that very thing to actually *happen*.